Survey: Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?

[Jeff S]

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2 hours ago, Sandokan said:

Why didnt they use the SL battery as it is standard across SL series and Q2? 

To accommodate the SD card slot…

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2022/01/leica-m11-review-the-ultimate-digital-m/
 

Jeff

[SJH]

Firstly very well done Leica and evolution not revolution, however, no I will not be buying the M11 now, why:

- in Europe I had the M11 Silver and Black in my basket for 3 hours as I read through all the reviews and decided that ultimately my M10R Black Paint was going to stay. Here they didn’t all go within minutes and you could still have bought one 3 hours on from launch.

- I just couldn’t really see any meaningful upgrades for me in real life 

- the M11 is obviously the ‘base’ model, if I do buy it will be the M11P and I’m relieved I won’t be joining the ranks of the many who buy an M11 today and then trade it in at a 40%+ loss in 18 months time for the camera that will have had all the quirks sorted and just feel better to use day to day and give more joy.

- so for nearly the same money, in depreciation terms of trading, I’ve bought a Q2 Reporter so I have a unique camera to pair with my M10R BP for travel (along with my Q2M) that has OIS, a great EVF, 47mb and a 28mm f1.7 Summilux. To me this seems such a better deal.

- reading/seeing most of the reviews it appears that the undertone to most is that the M10R is more than enough and hey I have two batteries anyway so even that’s not a problem as it doesn’t do 30fps etc. You don’t have to go far on social media to see people who’ve been trusted with the base M11 for the last 2-6 months quietly (or not so quietly) buy an M10R BP during this period which probably tells you a story in itself.

- I can buy the new EVF and it will work with my M10R BP. 

- the M10R BP just looks and feels so much better in my view, so more joy to pick up and shoot  

- high ISO seems to be on a par and anyway I have an SL2-S and Q2M anyhow if it isn’t quite.

- the M11 in base form seems to be slightly more in line with the mirrorless masses with rolling shutter and e.g no baseplate which give character and lets face it we’re not using them to fire away at 30fps or changing the battery out after 45 minutes of 8k stuff.

- only in the Leica universe do people get excited about what really is a very modest step forward in day to day use  

- much as I love the latest and greatest from Leica normally (e.g. I was amongst the first to get the SL2-S, M-35 APO and 50mm 1.2) this just felt like the same thing as some iPhone ‘upgrades’ - 3 minutes after the new purchase and powering on to realise it looks the same, works the same and it’s almost the same as the last one in real life

So no - I will enjoy my M10R BP and new Q2 Reporter and have far more fun and joy than not having either and now having a base M11 that I’ll really regret getting 2-3 months down the line when all the M11P rumours start

Edited January 13, 2022 by SJH

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[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, jplomley said:

Will be sticking with my M10-R, M10M and SL2. 

Same.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, granite said:

 I can foresee problems with what appears to be an exposed USB socket. 

The USB-C port is weather sealed to ip67 rating. And like the SL and Q bodies, the battery top is gasketed (and in the M11 covers the SD card slot).
 

Jeff

[evikne]

Even though I like the new ISO 64 a lot and the color rendering looks fine, I don't feel any desire yet. And that's just fine, because I couldn't afford it anyway. I have absolutely no interest in the higher resolution. But if I can shoot with lower res without any quality loss, it's probably OK. But I feel in a way there are too many choices, too many settings. Where is "Das Wesentliche"? All I want is the exposure knobs and an on/off switch. And no screen. So I'll wait for the M11-D. Maybe that will be more tempting.

Edited January 14, 2022 by evikne

[Printmaker]

I'll probably get a used M10R when there is a glut in the market. Or maybe a M10M. I'm just not printing anything that big anymore and managing my Lightroom catalog is challenging enough at 24 mp. Of course I reserve the right to change my mind.

 

[malligator]

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I am still very much dedicated to my film M, but I will say that the M11 is the first digital M I'm actually interested in. I won't be preordering or even buying anytime soon, but I can no longer rule out owning one.

The idea of using my Luxes wide open without a filter is VERY intriguing.

Edited January 14, 2022 by malligator

[rramesh]

Over the past several days, I asked myself the following questions.

• Am I using the M10-P to its full potential? No.
• Do I need a 60 MP camera? Not really. 
• Do I need ISO 64? No. On the occasion, I can always use the ND filters I have.
• Do I need a larger battery? Changing a battery on the M10-P is not difficult and the batteries are small enough to carry.
• Do I need a better viewfinder? I probably need one only for about 3% of my shots where I need to look down. The LCD screen is sufficient for framing when needed.
• Baseplate? It's legendary, no?

Edited January 14, 2022 by rramesh

[Reciprocity]

58 minutes ago, SJH said:

You don’t have to go far on social media to see people who’ve been trusted with the base M11 for the last 2-6 months quietly (or not so quietly) buy an M10R BP during this period which probably tells you a story in itself.

Interesting that they all went for the black paint version. Is there any difference between the regular M10-R and the black paint version I don't know about? 

[Crem]

5 hours ago, Robert Blanko said:

Still undecided. The big question for me is, whether the so-called pixel binning (via hardware? Via software?) will have any advantage over post processing of a 60MP DNG and whether the sensor performance is noticeably better than that of my M10R in practice. Another aspect to consider is that at 60MP and the associated small pixel pitch diffraction kicks in at about above f7.

The reduced weight is a great advantage IMHO.

No baseplate: neutral

Maybe I will replace my M10 that I also still have with a black M11...

I am a little surprised I haven't seen much info yet on the S/M/L DNG internals. I have no doubt someone will dig into them in great detail. My guess is this feature is done in software with hardware optimizations. Basically a bunch of matrix math. It would be very risky to embed these algorithms 100% in hardware and then find a bug. I'm mostly curious what math they are using to do the downsampling.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Crem

[adan]

33 minutes ago, Crem said:

I am a little surprised I haven't seen much info yet on the S/M/L DNG internals. I have no doubt someone will dig into them in great detail.

Agree. While most people are just salivating over the 60 Mpixels, the ability to provide varied output in a real RAW format seems to actually be the place where Leica is suddenly leading the industry (for the moment).

I've pretty much decided now that, absent the unveiling of a disastrous flaw, I will get an M11. I figure Leica reserves a reward for this tech alone.

But I'll wait for the rush to die down to where I can order one and get it in a couple of days. (Pretty much the same way I exit an airliner - I just sit in my window seat and read a book, until the aisle has cleared out ). So maybe April - or July - or August - no rush.

In the meantime I'll be watching for those technical reports on the .DNG formats. And upgrading my desktop RAM (although actually it has already handled a few M11 60Mp files gracefully). And happily using my M10s.

Additionally, unlike past practice, I will probably buy the M11 outright, and keep the M10s around for a while, rather than trading or selling them immediately. Not because I have M11 doubts, but because again, there is no rush.

[shinglj]

I won’t be buying an M11 because i need both my kidneys.

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

I would get one if I could figure how to load the film canister.  I better stick with my M2's.  Seriously though, only 60 megapixels?  That's all?  Ha, ha, probably need a new computer with more memory if I was going to play with this system.  Then I'd want all those modern asphericals.  What a slippery slope.  Seriously, for real this time, for those who get one (or two), have lots of fun, go on many adventures and take great pictures. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[Camaro5]

I can see an M11 in my future.  Just not the immediate future.

[Crem]

28 minutes ago, adan said:

Agree. While most people are just salivating over the 60 Mpixels, the ability to provide varied output in a real RAW format seems to actually be the place where Leica is suddenly leading the industry (for the moment).

I've pretty much decided now that, absent the unveiling of a disastrous flaw, I will get an M11. I figure Leica reserves a reward for this tech alone.

But I'll wait for the rush to die down to where I can order one and get it in a couple of days. (Pretty much the same way I exit an airliner - I just sit in my window seat and read a book, until the aisle has cleared out ). So maybe April - or July - or August - no rush.

In the meantime I'll be watching for those technical reports on the .DNG formats. And upgrading my desktop RAM (although actually it has already handled a few M11 60Mp files gracefully). And happily using my M10s.

Additionally, unlike past practice, I will probably buy the M11 outright, and keep the M10s around for a while, rather than trading or selling them immediately. Not because I have M11 doubts, but because again, there is no rush.

Exactly what you said! 60mp is nice, but not why I want the camera. I had 60mp and sold it. It robbed me of the post processing. I’m also incapable of only zooming to 50%. For me, variable sized raw is to post processing what the m10d is to chimping. It will add joy to the overall digital M experience. I also will likely end up with an M11 or a M11P. At minimum I want to see a firmware update come out and for the initial mad rush to be finished. I’m also torn on selling my M10R. It’s such a wonderful camera. 

[Danner]

No.

My first digital M will most likely be an M10.  Watching the used market now that the M11 is here.

[Dennis]

12 minutes ago, Danner said:

No.

My first digital M will most likely be an M10.  Watching the used market now that the M11 is here.

M10-P I would suggest. The quieter shutter makes the difference. Similar price I guess  

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, adan said:

Agree. While most people are just salivating over the 60 Mpixels, the ability to provide varied output in a real RAW format seems to actually be the place where Leica is suddenly leading the industry (for the moment).

I've pretty much decided now that, absent the unveiling of a disastrous flaw, I will get an M11. I figure Leica reserves a reward for this tech alone.

But I'll wait for the rush to die down to where I can order one and get it in a couple of days. (Pretty much the same way I exit an airliner - I just sit in my window seat and read a book, until the aisle has cleared out ). So maybe April - or July - or August - no rush.

In the meantime I'll be watching for those technical reports on the .DNG formats. And upgrading my desktop RAM (although actually it has already handled a few M11 60Mp files gracefully). And happily using my M10s.

Additionally, unlike past practice, I will probably buy the M11 outright, and keep the M10s around for a while, rather than trading or selling them immediately. Not because I have M11 doubts, but because again, there is no rush.

The guys at Red Dot Forum (Leica Miami) streamed on YouTube today (Camera Talk) and briefly touched on the results from varying resolutions.  David Farkas did not see much difference between 60 MP and the smaller resolution settings in terms of noise, etc, and got even better noise results from the former with a small bit of PP adjustment.  But they intend to take a deeper dive into the subject, with much more testing, and will present findings in their next interactive presentation on January 29. 
 

 

Without watching this lengthy presentation, David summarizes his findings to date here…

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2022/01/leica-m11-review-the-ultimate-digital-m/

Jeff

Edited January 14, 2022 by Jeff S

[dante]

This would have been a great camera before COVID and for a thousand less. If we didn't live in a world with diminished photographic opportunities I might have even jumped at $9k. 

And it's not just $9,000. Realistically,. with all said and done, it's probably $11,000 by the time you get done with tax, UHS-II cards, the obligatory $350 spare battery, and a half case. To say nothing of the added storage and processing power you would need to pound through files that are quadruple the size. And the inevitable new lenses. As @TheBestSLIsALeicaflexsays, it's a slippery slope.

I'll probably buy one next year (or more likely the mono version), but right now, M240 and 246 -- and an A7r ii - seem adequate for the gray days of January, and I can think of a lot of things to do with that M11 kind of money that would have a positive financial impact.

 

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[dante]

18 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The guys at Red Dot Forum (Leica Miami) streamed on YouTube today (Camera Talk) and briefly touched on the results from varying resolutions.  David Farkas did not see much difference between 60 MP and the smaller resolution settings in terms of noise, etc, and got even better noise results from the former with a small bit of PP adjustment.

Zero surprise. The Kodak 14n had binning like this, and it was always better to reserve downsampling for later - processing software is looking at the individual pixels just like the camera would.