Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

[hdmesa]

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2 minutes ago, SrMi said:

My point was that for the same resolution sensor, the Monochrom came out before the Bayer CFA version (M10-R). If there will be two color M11 versions with different resolutions, I assume that the Monochrom will have the higher resolution sensor. The better sensor will likely be ready only after the lower resolution color M11 has been launched.

Speculations :).

I thought the two sets of resolution for the M10 cameras was a fluke (borrowed and cut down S3 sensor to make the monochrom and R), and they would go back to just one set of color and monochrome. Maybe low and high res versions is new normal.

[rramesh]

https://leicarumors.com/2021/04/17/leica-will-launch-more-new-m-lenses-with-a-minimum-focusing-distance-of-30cm.aspx/

Does this point to a new minimum focus distance of 0.3 for a next generation M rangefinder? Is this even possible?

Edited April 19, 2021 by rramesh

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[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, Sam M said:

People have missed what I want more than anything - bring back the frameline illumination window!  Something about that on the chrome bodies (perhaps with an M on the left front as well) is just sooo sexy.

I have no need of a new camera (my original M10 is way more camera than I am photographer), but if Leica brought that back (even a faux one), I would lay down my credit card immediately.  Yes, I am relatively shallow.

It has been mentioned, but for practical rather than cosmetic reasons...

Jeff

[analog-digital]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb IkarusJohn:

What’s a church?

This is slang.

[analog-digital]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb rramesh:

Actually the latest watch is called a phone. It also doubles as a camera and an entertainment centre. And you can talk and interact with all your friends and relatives. If you are still not sure, ask Siri.

Until the battery is empty and you have to look at the church clock.

[lct]

Indeed incredible that those "phones" need batteries to work, contrary to telephones (corded), watches (solar) and churches (holy spirit) .

[ianforber]

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4 hours ago, analog-digital said:

Until the battery is empty and you have to look at the church clock.

Which is why I wear a self-winding mechanical watch. I have enough batteries in my life! If I want to know the time, just look at the watch. And it gives me something else to spend money on 😂

[mmradman]

8 hours ago, rramesh said:

https://leicarumors.com/2021/04/17/leica-will-launch-more-new-m-lenses-with-a-minimum-focusing-distance-of-30cm.aspx/

Does this point to a new minimum focus distance of 0.3 for a next generation M rangefinder? Is this even possible?

The company can't keep selling same lenses with tweak to lens hood only in perpetuity.  Introducing new feature like reduced minimum focusing distance is a good opportunity to keep selling modified earlier design. A new generation of M camera will have to share Optical RF with  means to focus at 0.3 meters - which seems to be EVF.

[lct]

10 minutes ago, mmradman said:

A new generation of M camera will have to share Optical RF with  means to focus at 0.3 meters - which seems to be EVF.

If Leica decided to take Visoflexes seriously i'd begin to believe that... Would be interesting to see how a squinting RF can work though

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, mmradman said:

The company can't keep selling same lenses with tweak to lens hood only in perpetuity.  Introducing new feature like reduced minimum focusing distance is a good opportunity to keep selling modified earlier design. A new generation of M camera will have to share Optical RF with  means to focus at 0.3 meters - which seems to be EVF.

Not just reason to sell more, but to increase prices in the process.  I saw a video interview with Leica managers discussing the new 35 M APO from the marketing and technical sides of the house.  It was initially planned by marketing/development with traditional .7m MFD, but the technical side showed the possibilities and they went back and redesigned the lens with closer MFD.  So they’ve found a new ‘hook’, which is wasted on the current bodies using the RF.  That probably means newer, more expensive cameras and/or EVFs, too.  And the beat goes on...
 

Jeff

[mmradman]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Not just reason to sell more, but to increase prices in the process.  I saw a video interview with Leica managers discussing the new 35 M APO from the marketing and technical sides of the house.  It was initially planned by marketing/development with traditional .7m MFD, but the technical side showed the possibilities and they went back and redesigned the lens with closer MFD.  So they’ve found a new ‘hook’, which is wasted on the current bodies using the RF.  That probably means newer, more expensive cameras and/or EVFs, too.  And the beat goes on...
 

Jeff

Indeed, at this rate Leica’s M bayonet will be longest operational bayonet style for a 35mm [full frame] camera. The old LTM thread I believe still lives on in other photography related industrial applications.

If Leica can keep milking M mount into the seventh decade all is good but the concept is crying for technological uplift and 0.3m [1']  MFD lenses could be the sign of such change.  

In SLR universe Nikon's venerable  F mount which started life in 1959  is now being phased out for good with new Z mount. Current F model cameras are likely to be among the last ones, maybe one more final hooray with perhaps D850 successor. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by mmradman
Added paragraph.

[Herr Barnack]

4 minutes ago, mmradman said:

Indeed, at this rate Leica’s M bayonet will be longest operational bayonet style for a 35mm [full frame] camera. The old LTM thread I believe still lives on in other photography related industrial applications.

In SLR universe Nikon's venerable  F mount which started life in 1959  is now being phased out for good with new Z mount. Current F model cameras are likely to be among the last ones, maybe one more final hooray with perhaps D850 successor. 

That is one of the strengths of the M system and one of the things I find most desirable about it:  Continuity.

Advances in technology have transformed photography into a world of shifting sand, where we feel the earth moving beneath our feet.  The M system feels rock solid by comparison.  Leica has made a way for the M system to benefit and evolve thanks to advances in technology without allowing it being plowed under by technology. 

In today's world of photography, crafting such a vision for a camera company and adhering to it is no mean feat. 

[mmradman]

48 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

That is one of the strengths of the M system and one of the things I find most desirable about it:  Continuity.

Advances in technology have transformed photography into a world of shifting sand, where we feel the earth moving beneath our feet.  The M system feels rock solid by comparison.  Leica has made a way for the M system to benefit and evolve thanks to advances in technology without allowing it being plowed under by technology. 

In today's world of photography, crafting such a vision for a camera company and adhering to it is no mean feat. 

Strength, speaking like a true fanboy, is only on one side of the coin, flip it over.

By pondering to M die-hard crowd and sticking to M film camera physical size development of digital M in Leica's hands is constrained.  The Leica appreciation society chorus keeps repeating the mantra that Leica is only small company and can't invest much in digital R&D. I agree and it shows, substandard EVFs that came with M240 and M10 appear to be the hallmark of this.

 

Using lenses satisfactorily in a focusing range shorter than 0.7 meters will depend on good implementation of EVF.

[Herr Barnack]

Deleted.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Herr Barnack]

1 hour ago, mmradman said:

Strength, speaking like a true fanboy, is only on one side of the coin, flip it over.

By pondering to M die-hard crowd and sticking to M film camera physical size development of digital M in Leica's hands is constrained.  The Leica appreciation society chorus keeps repeating the mantra that Leica is only small company and can't invest much in digital R&D. I agree and it shows, substandard EVFs that came with M240 and M10 appear to be the hallmark of this.

 

Using lenses satisfactorily in a focusing range shorter than 0.7 meters will depend on good implementation of EVF.

Thanks for sharing your obnoxiousness and negativity.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Oswalt]

All I would like is a battery with a larger capacity that is cross - compatible. I can happily use an m10/11 for the rest of my life. 

[jdlaing]

2 hours ago, mmradman said:

Strength, speaking like a true fanboy, is only on one side of the coin, flip it over.

By pondering to M die-hard crowd and sticking to M film camera physical size development of digital M in Leica's hands is constrained.  The Leica appreciation society chorus keeps repeating the mantra that Leica is only small company and can't invest much in digital R&D. I agree and it shows, substandard EVFs that came with M240 and M10 appear to be the hallmark of this.

 

Using lenses satisfactorily in a focusing range shorter than 0.7 meters will depend on good implementation of EVF.

EVF on an M is a crutch anyway. I wouldn’t have expected it to be more. If you expected more you have no business with a rangefinder camera.

[IkarusJohn]

I’ve always suspected that the optical rangefinder on the M10 is as good as we’re going to get.  And for my purposes, it’s fine.

But it has its limitations for all the reasons we’re been over before - focus shift (the 35 Summilux ASPH, before the FLE re-release); viewfinder blockage (new Noctiluxes); very fine depth of field (Noctiluxes and longer Summiluxes); the macro adapter; and now shorter minimum focus distance (35 APO Summicron ASPH).  Liveview, using the LCD sort of copes with this, but not really.

An improved EVF is a necessity if the traditional M format is to be retained; whether by an revised Visoflex, or a revised camera which retains the M mount, but dispenses with the rangefinder, which cannot cope with these developments as well.  Such a revised camera could also open new opportunities for M lenses outside the current constraint of 21 to 90.

For myself, I have no interest in such a camera.  The current Visoflex will do for those occasions when I need it.  I’m not convinced by focus peaking - it just isn’t as precise as the current range finder.  But I suspect there is a large market for a new approach.  Obviously, it won’t be called an M camera - it isn’t “messsucher” stupid!  But opening the door on these issues, as Leica is clearly doing, almost makes an M mount variant inevitable.  For the moment, revising the EVF (with a new processor and battery to carry the load) will do.  But for such fine new lenses, does Leica really want to sell a top range camera with two viewfinders?  Bit Heath Robinson, don’t you think?

[RS-Colo]

I would love for this thread to focus more on the new Visoflex. Or maybe we should spin a discussion off. In any case, I like the current one a lot. I am very comfortable with the rangefinder for most of my work. But I use the Visoflex for macro and whenever I use my 90mm or 135mm M lenses. I just find the rangefinder is not accurate enough. But I use my 28mm and 50mm lenses much more and then rangefinder is fine for me.

What would a new and improved Visoflex offer beside higher resolution and a different form-factor (e.g. smaller/larger, flip-up, flip-down, etc). Any new features?

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[jaapv]

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Leica M11 - your next camera?

No.