M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[hdmesa]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Update:

Delkin Black UHS-II 64gb card showed up first today, so I tested this card to rule out issues with my Sandisk and Sony Tough.

So far the Delkin Black seems to run with zero freezes on startup when using the 35 1.5. All settings were changed back to my original pre-testing preferences including storage management of IN=SD, power saving mode on, lens detection on, etc. I've tried multiple dismounts and remounting of the 35 1.5 to try and trigger the freeze as had been the case before with no problem.

I'll report back if I get another freeze, but as of now, this seems to be the solution for my M11's freezing.

The question that remains for me is why my other SD cards do not cause freezes with coded lenses but do cause freezes with uncoded ones. It must be that when the code reader on the mount detects an uncoded lens, it access the SD card for some reason, either a routine check or it writes an invisible reference file as to the lens being uncoded that is not necessary when using a coded lens. I really don't have any way to know, I can only speculate.

I think the camera in general wasn't working as well with my other cards because after switching to internal memory, I noticed an increase in the responsiveness of the live view image and camera operation in general – this responsiveness seems the same with the Delkin Black.

I will report this all to Leica to have it added to the open case on my previous M11.

End result: my M11 simply isn't compatible with my other SD cards:

• 🚫 Sandisk UHS-II in 64 and 128 capacity
•  🚫 Sony Tough in UHS-I and UHS-II in 128 and 256 capacities

 

All the above cards work flawlessly with my SL2-S and previous cameras, the R5 and GFX100S, so perhaps Leica could improve the M11 firmware to work with a wider range of SD cards. I don't really care about the Sony Tough compatibility as my M10-R and Q2 didn't like them either, but the M11 should be able to work flawlessly with the Sandisk UHS-II cards.

[hdmesa]

Sadly I must report my first freeze using the Delkin Black card with the CV 35 1.5, so this is NOT solved for me.

This M11 will be going back for refund or exchange, I haven't yet decided which.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Qlan]

3 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Sadly I must report my first freeze using the Delkin Black card with the CV 35 1.5, so this is NOT solved for me.

This M11 will be going back for refund or exchange, I haven't yet decided which.

😢 Last resort is hand coding your lenses...

[hdmesa]

4 minutes ago, Qlan said:

😢 Last resort is hand coding your lenses...

Ugh. I just shouldn't have to do that when others have M11s that work fine with uncoded lenses – I would be accepting a defective M11 as ok. 

[Qlan]

6 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Ugh. I just shouldn't have to do that when others have M11s that work fine with uncoded lenses – I would be accepting a defective M11 as ok. 

Totally understand. But as this point, I don't think it's a hardware issue. In which case, getting a new one won't do much. And I'm fine if it is a software bug, as long as it's not too disruptive. I don't find any good alternative to the M's size and IQ, but if you are happy with another system, go for it.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Qlan

[hdmesa]

3 minutes ago, Qlan said:

Totally understand. But as this point, I don't think it's a hardware issue. In which case, getting a new one won't do much. And I'm fine if it is a software bug, as long as it's not too disruptive. I don't find any good alternative to the M's size and IQ, but if you are happy with another system, go for it.

I agree with your description of the M, which is why I bought one. But since there are others who have copies of the M11 that can use uncoded lenses without freezes, I don't want to accept a lesser copy as ok for $9K. I'm ok with using my SL2-S Reporter with my M lenses until the M11-P comes out or I hear of yet another M11 firmware update specific to freezes with uncoded lenses.

[lct]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Just out of curiosity, do you have the same problems with other uncoded lenses? Apologies if you answered already. 

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Just out of curiosity, do you have the same problems with other uncoded lenses? Apologies if you answered already. 

I just now received my 75 1.9 about an hour ago, and I'm trying it on the M11 to see if I still get freezes. This will be the thing to check with this copy of the M11 – to determine if the problem is specifically my CV 35 1.5 or all uncoded lenses. Granted, two uncoded lenses is not a large test pool, but it's all I have at the moment.

[tom0511]

Am 29.3.2023 um 23:26 schrieb hdmesa:

Leica is/was doing that. They had a long list of question for me when I emailed them about my last M11 freezing. I'm sure they're throwing it all into a spreadsheet for analysis.

makes sense

[hdmesa]

Update:

I’ve been keeping Leica updated on my freezing issue via email with the open case from my previous M11.

Yesterday I followed up letting them know the freezing returned with the 35 1.5 after trying the Delkin Black card, and I had decided to return or exchange it. I just received a reply asking me to hold off on returning my M11 to the dealer if possible as they are discussing an option, but it may take a few days to figure out.

I’m encouraged they are looking into the issue, so this is great news. I had wrongly assumed the updates I was emailing them were being added to the case but not being looked into.

I’ll report back here when I hear back from Leica.

Edited March 31, 2023 by hdmesa

[douglas fry]

I have the same issue, but I think the freezing happens when coming out of power saving mode. I tried a variety of cards in various permutations of DNG on SD and JPG on internal, etc but it wasnt until I set the power saving mode to 'Camera Standby 60mins' and 'Display Standby off'  the freezing stopped.

 

I think the M11 or at least my M11 doesnt like sleeping or at least coming out of sleep mode

[lct]

35 minutes ago, douglas fry said:

it wasnt until I set the power saving mode to 'Camera Standby 60mins' and 'Display Standby off'  the freezing stopped.

I think the M11 or at least my M11 doesnt like sleeping or at least coming out of sleep mode

Thank you for sharing. FWIW i got no freezes with Camera standby 2 min and Display standby 30s (FW 1.6.1, UHS1 @ UHS2 Sandisk cards)

[Shavou]

2 hours ago, douglas fry said:

I have the same issue, but I think the freezing happens when coming out of power saving mode. I tried a variety of cards in various permutations of DNG on SD and JPG on internal, etc but it wasnt until I set the power saving mode to 'Camera Standby 60mins' and 'Display Standby off'  the freezing stopped.

 

I think the M11 or at least my M11 doesnt like sleeping or at least coming out of sleep mode

Exactly the same scenario here! 
freezes only happen when camera waking up from sleep !

[Qlan]

Hdmesa and I are experiencing a different kind of freeze (across 6 M11 bodies for the both of us). It happens at startup, not wakeup, and most often than not, after mounting a non-coded lens.

Btw, just experienced a freeze yesterday after taking a picture: shutter opened (but didn't close, and no it wasn't a long exposure), red light on, cannot do anything. Once I removed and re-inserted the battery, the image wasn't taken.

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, Qlan said:

Hdmesa and I are experiencing a different kind of freeze (across 6 M11 bodies for the both of us). It happens at startup, not wakeup, and most often than not, after mounting a non-coded lens.

Btw, just experienced a freeze yesterday after taking a picture: shutter opened (but didn't close, and no it wasn't a long exposure), red light on, cannot do anything. Once I removed and re-inserted the battery, the image wasn't taken.

Until they have a firmware fix, I did find switching to only to internal memory stopped the freezes (then I would insert the SD and manually copy them to back up or transfer). Or it's possible I didn't try that long enough for the freezing to come back, but it's something you might try if you haven't already.

[Corius]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Until they have a firmware fix, I did find switching to only to internal memory stopped the freezes (then I would insert the SD and manually copy them to back up or transfer). Or it's possible I didn't try that long enough for the freezing to come back, but it's something you might try if you haven't already.

Why don't you and Qlan just return your Leicas for a refund? No way would I let it consume my life as it appears to have done for you.

My M11 has been fine, but if other manufacturers can release very sophisticated cameras that work without such problems it does make you wonder that either the development or production capabilities at Leica are severely lacking.

The M11 is mechanically complex, but the electronics are in no way at the cutting edge.

[Leica Filmmatic]

Had my first freeze yesterday and I just turned it off and on, was all good after that.  Current firmware 

[Qlan]

37 minutes ago, Corius said:

Why don't you and Qlan just return your Leicas for a refund? No way would I let it consume my life as it appears to have done for you.

My M11 has been fine, but if other manufacturers can release very sophisticated cameras that work without such problems it does make you wonder that either the development or production capabilities at Leica are severely lacking.

The M11 is mechanically complex, but the electronics are in no way at the cutting edge.

Don't worry it's not consuming my life lol. As I said, there's no alternative to Leica M in terms of compactness + full frame + great IQ + usability. I am fine with a freeze from time to time as long as it's a software bug and not hardware issue.

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, Corius said:

Why don't you and Qlan just return your Leicas for a refund? No way would I let it consume my life as it appears to have done for you.

My M11 has been fine, but if other manufacturers can release very sophisticated cameras that work without such problems it does make you wonder that either the development or production capabilities at Leica are severely lacking.

The M11 is mechanically complex, but the electronics are in no way at the cutting edge.

I’m an doing the Lord’s work here.

In seriousness, though, my Leica lenses are working flawlessly, so I can wait for a fix to be able to use my CV 35 1.5 now that I know Leica is still working on fixing the remaining freeze issues. The exact words that the Leica contact used were, “…we are putting a lot of effort into resolving the freeze issues.” 

As I understand it, every launch of a new digital M had issues compared to the later P models, so I had an idea of what I might be in for here. But I agree, they can create very stable SL firmware but seem to struggle with the firmware for the M cameras. Adding off-sensor metering full-time on the M11 probably required a rewrite of much of the existing code from the M10 cameras.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[lct]

Is there a word for post-release tests, theta-testing? Glad people like you are interested enough in helping Leica while a mere hand coding could fix the issue. Some legacy Leica lenses cannot be hand-coded as easily as CV or ZM ones and the M11 is supposed to work flawlessly with them.