M11-P freezes too

[elmars]

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb BillCB:

Well, I'm one. I have an M11 and an M11-P

Me too. No freezes.

[thighslapper]

5 hours ago, BillCB said:

I wonder how many people don't have freezing issues and, of course, don't report that. Well, I'm one. I have an M11 and an M11-P and have had only a single issue despite several thousand shots on each camera. I do wait a second or two after turning on the camera before taking a shot - something I learned from my electric car - give the circuitry a moment to stabilize before driving off. May have no relevance but works for me.

It's this user variability that most owners find so frustrating. 

The problems are clearly related to specific settings, conditions and the way photographers use their particular camera.

My personal view is that all this results from Leica porting code from one camera model to the next and just tinkering with it to make it usable and incorporate new technology. As a result you get cumulative potential problems with suboptimal coding. Ideally they should do a bottom up re-write, which unfortunately is more expensive and time consuming.

In my time I have reported many glitches to Leica ...... only to get the reply that they couldn't replicate them .... or they didn't regard them as an issue with the camera ..... so as far as they were concerned they didn't exist. 

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[Herr Barnack]

On 1/31/2024 at 4:10 AM, thighslapper said:

It's this user variability that most owners find so frustrating. 

The problems are clearly related to specific settings, conditions and the way photographers use their particular camera.

My personal view is that all this results from Leica porting code from one camera model to the next and just tinkering with it to make it usable and incorporate new technology. As a result you get cumulative potential problems with suboptimal coding. Ideally they should do a bottom up re-write, which unfortunately is more expensive and time consuming.

In my time I have reported many glitches to Leica ...... only to get the reply that they couldn't replicate them .... or they didn't regard them as an issue with the camera ..... so as far as they were concerned they didn't exist. 

I think you are on to something. 

Not all M11 users have problems with the camera; some unfortunate few seem to be plagued with problems.  Why?? 

Live view, the Leica Fotos app and SD card selection seem to be common denominators.  Overheating may also be a factor - or overheating may be the result of all the previously mentioned factors, with overheating causing lock ups that require dropping the battery to fix.

Some may disagree, but IMHO a camera costing $9200 USD should not freeze up on the user.  That said, I am getting ready to drop that $9200 pound of flesh for an M11-P, hoping fervently that I don't end up like a newly turned drinking age virgin who marries a 40 year old stripper. 🙄

Edited February 19 by Herr Barnack

[Stevejack]

14 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

I think you are on to something. 

Not all M11 users have problems with the camera; some unfortunate few seem to be plagued with problems.  Why?? 

Live view, the Leica Fotos app and SD card selection seem to be common denominators.  Overheating may also be a factor - or overheating may be the result of all the previously mentioned factors, with overheating causing lock ups that require dropping the battery to fix.

Some may disagree, but IMHO a camera costing $9200 USD should not freeze up on the user.  That said, I am getting ready to drop that $9200 pound of flesh for an M11-P, hoping fervently that I don't end up like a schmuck who marries a stripper. 🙄

I have both the M11 and the M11M, I use them in exactly the same way but only the M11M freezes. Identical SD cards, and I get freezes when I'm not using live view. 

The only difference between them from my side is the firmware. The M11M has the latest firmware, the M11 is still on its original firmware from release.

[Derbyshire Man]

2 minutes ago, Stevejack said:

I have both the M11 and the M11M, I use them in exactly the same way but only the M11M freezes. Identical SD cards, and I get freezes when I'm not using live view. 

The only difference between them from my side is the firmware. The M11M has the latest firmware, the M11 is still on its original firmware from release.

Interesting, M11-P here, 2.02. Freeze free if I use internal memory. Freezes if I use SD. Can use any other setting I want while recording to internal without it seems risk. I regard the camera as highly predictable/reliable. Coming up to 10,000 freeze frames with only (4) freezes in the 300-400 frames when using SD card before I swapped to internal.

[Stevejack]

14 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

Interesting, M11-P here, 2.02. Freeze free if I use internal memory. Freezes if I use SD. Can use any other setting I want while recording to internal without it seems risk. I regard the camera as highly predictable/reliable. Coming up to 10,000 freeze frames with only (4) freezes in the 300-400 frames when using SD card before I swapped to internal.

I've switched over to internal memory only as well now, and not keeping an SD in the camera at all. I haven't used the camera for more than a few frames since doing that but hopefully I'll know if it's solved the problem for me within the next week or so. Good to know you've had success here 👍

Edit: Last week I was using IN = SD which is mirroring the files from the internal drive to the SD card. When I went to download my files from the SD card, I had a corrupt DNG (I get these very frequently).
The particular image I wanted was the first in the series, and I reviewed it on the back of the camera after taking it so I know it was there.   When I had the corrupt file on the SD card, I went to get that image off the internal drive (which is why I was using IN=SD) but that filewas no longer on the internal drive. What I mean is, all the other images were there but that first shot was no longer on the camera. I couldn't review it on the back of the screen, and the file was missing from the drive. Very strange, and very concerning. 
I don't know if IN=SD means it writes to the SD card first, and then to the internal drive - but that's the only way I can see that this issue would occur. So that's why I've started using the internal drive now. We will see if it also solves the freezing issue. 

Edited February 19 by Stevejack

[Infantasy]

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I went to Leica shop to have a try on the open-close-open shutter operation of the M11-P silver yesterday. It didn't give any significant sound to me for the initial open for metering but the entire shutter operation did give me different feeling against my M10-P which is very hard to explain by words. Considering the possible freezing problem, would you guy recommend upgrading from M10-P to M11-P?

[Edax]

1 hour ago, Infantasy said:

I went to Leica shop to have a try on the open-close-open shutter operation of the M11-P silver yesterday. It didn't give any significant sound to me for the initial open for metering but the entire shutter operation did give me different feeling against my M10-P which is very hard to explain by words. Considering the possible freezing problem, would you guy recommend upgrading from M10-P to M11-P?

Considering the freeze AND unreadable .DNG's problems that plague many M11 users including myself (after FW 2.0.2), no I would advise against it. The best decision I made when buying the M11-P was keeping my reliable M10-P. I am considering getting rid of the M11-P and buying a second M10-P (or M10-R).

[WvE]

I passed on the M11 altogether, firstly, it's getting just too expensive, and secondly, the risk of freezes and the long repair times with a camera of 9000K. I wonder if the camera has so far been a success for Leica like the M10 has.  

[graphlex]

On 12/17/2023 at 8:03 AM, scott kirkpatrick said:

If you are careful about power on and switching into and out of review, I think you will have no problems with 2.0 and may enjoy the several functional improvements.  I found that the vulnerable period during startup, which used to be 3 or more seconds, is now down to ~0.5 seconds.  I think I can keep out of that window.  And I very rarely review when things are hectic.

Another reason to look forward to an M11-D!

[Budfox]

On 1/31/2024 at 3:37 AM, BillCB said:

I wonder how many people don't have freezing issues and, of course, don't report that. Well, I'm one. I have an M11 and an M11-P and have had only a single issue despite several thousand shots on each camera. I do wait a second or two after turning on the camera before taking a shot - something I learned from my electric car - give the circuitry a moment to stabilize before driving off. May have no relevance but works for me.

Only one episode repetitive freezing while using in the rain on the M11 - it was sheltered but had a few drops on the body, not sure if relevant. Nothing since for 10 months.

[bilbrown]

My M11-P freezing issues have gotten way better. It still occasionally happens, but I have yet to have any corrupt DNG because of it. 

The learning curve on using this iteration of DRF has been crazy for someone that has used Leica digital since the M8, but as we remember, even that camera had its pitfalls and needed some fixes.

I believe the shutter and the "legacy" SD card on the M11/M11-M/M11-P is honestly the culprit for most of these issues. Not the shutter or SD card themselves, but how the camera has to work around its decided functionality and how the software developers have to enact timing to work around it. Turning the camera on, whether or not it reads a lens, write speed to the card – all seem like design issues. 

When the camera works, which is now 90%+ of the time, its a great camera.

There are some issues I have had with the metering, and white (over exposed) frames when you try to shoot faster than the meter has a chance to grab a good shot. Some issues with getting the right colors with the camera, and some really odd rendering because I use a lot of legacy/vintage lenses and the high resolution really shows all the faults of that glass. Even focusing has to be more spot on than even my M10-R/M10-M were (I kept my M10-M, btw). That slows me down more than the M10 variants (or M240 for that matter) did, and slows me down more than the freezes. No, the M11 doesn't seem as refined as say the M10-R/M10-M was, but that's what you can expect with a EOL variant like the 40MP M10s. It should just work.

I think, in retrospect, I should have kept my M10-R or exchanged it for an M10-R BP. I even gave up my Q2M for the M11-P, simply because I had never had a "P" digital (or analog) and I really wanted to finally have one. After looking at some late night images I shot with my Q2M, I now really miss it. I also highly appreciate the Content Credentials Initiative in this age of generative drudgery... I hope to keep the M11-P and will give it a few more FW upgrades. If I remember correctly off the top of my head, the M10 had FW 5.0.x, right? Maybe the SL3 will show us what a ICL camera with this iteration of the sensor tech should really be. IF it has freezes too... I don't know what to tell Leica. Maybe invest in a different sensor developer or a different processor?

I trust these smart developers can fix the timing on a number of fronts and make this what it was designed to be: the best digital M yet!

If not... this was a very expensive mistake. Almost as bad as the motor drives on the S lenses years ago...

[lexffm]

Yesterday I also had my 1st freeze with my M 11 Monochrom (counter something around 450 images). Direct after change the lens from 35 to 75 mm. Only put out the battery helps at the end.

 

[bilbrown]

On 1/30/2024 at 1:17 PM, charlie9089 said:

I bought an M11 the day it came out, swapped it for an M10-R after a month, amazed these issues still continue but this vindicates my decision. It's a shame because in many ways the M11 is a nice camera.

Gave up my M10-R (an Q2M) for the M11-P. 

 

I wouldn't hesitate to turn my M11-P over for a M10-R BP.

Well, maybe I would hesitate... 

[lexffm]

Today I had a freeze with my M11-P counter around 920. No chance of lens bevor. 2nd picture on this day. Put out the battery. After that it works again…