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M11 freeze issues [Merged]


mrmalo

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Hdmesa and I are experiencing a different kind of freeze (across 6 M11 bodies for the both of us). It happens at startup, not wakeup, and most often than not, after mounting a non-coded lens.

Btw, just experienced a freeze yesterday after taking a picture: shutter opened (but didn't close, and no it wasn't a long exposure), red light on, cannot do anything. Once I removed and re-inserted the battery, the image wasn't taken.

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1 hour ago, Qlan said:

Hdmesa and I are experiencing a different kind of freeze (across 6 M11 bodies for the both of us). It happens at startup, not wakeup, and most often than not, after mounting a non-coded lens.

Btw, just experienced a freeze yesterday after taking a picture: shutter opened (but didn't close, and no it wasn't a long exposure), red light on, cannot do anything. Once I removed and re-inserted the battery, the image wasn't taken.

Until they have a firmware fix, I did find switching to only to internal memory stopped the freezes (then I would insert the SD and manually copy them to back up or transfer). Or it's possible I didn't try that long enough for the freezing to come back, but it's something you might try if you haven't already.

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2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Until they have a firmware fix, I did find switching to only to internal memory stopped the freezes (then I would insert the SD and manually copy them to back up or transfer). Or it's possible I didn't try that long enough for the freezing to come back, but it's something you might try if you haven't already.

Why don't you and Qlan just return your Leicas for a refund? No way would I let it consume my life as it appears to have done for you.

My M11 has been fine, but if other manufacturers can release very sophisticated cameras that work without such problems it does make you wonder that either the development or production capabilities at Leica are severely lacking.

The M11 is mechanically complex, but the electronics are in no way at the cutting edge.

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37 minutes ago, Corius said:

Why don't you and Qlan just return your Leicas for a refund? No way would I let it consume my life as it appears to have done for you.

My M11 has been fine, but if other manufacturers can release very sophisticated cameras that work without such problems it does make you wonder that either the development or production capabilities at Leica are severely lacking.

The M11 is mechanically complex, but the electronics are in no way at the cutting edge.

Don't worry it's not consuming my life lol. As I said, there's no alternative to Leica M in terms of compactness + full frame + great IQ + usability. I am fine with a freeze from time to time as long as it's a software bug and not hardware issue.

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5 hours ago, Corius said:

Why don't you and Qlan just return your Leicas for a refund? No way would I let it consume my life as it appears to have done for you.

My M11 has been fine, but if other manufacturers can release very sophisticated cameras that work without such problems it does make you wonder that either the development or production capabilities at Leica are severely lacking.

The M11 is mechanically complex, but the electronics are in no way at the cutting edge.

I’m an doing the Lord’s work here.

In seriousness, though, my Leica lenses are working flawlessly, so I can wait for a fix to be able to use my CV 35 1.5 now that I know Leica is still working on fixing the remaining freeze issues. The exact words that the Leica contact used were, “…we are putting a lot of effort into resolving the freeze issues.” 

As I understand it, every launch of a new digital M had issues compared to the later P models, so I had an idea of what I might be in for here. But I agree, they can create very stable SL firmware but seem to struggle with the firmware for the M cameras. Adding off-sensor metering full-time on the M11 probably required a rewrite of much of the existing code from the M10 cameras.

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Is there a word for post-release tests, theta-testing? Glad people like you are interested enough in helping Leica while a mere hand coding could fix the issue. Some legacy Leica lenses cannot be hand-coded as easily as CV or ZM ones and the M11 is supposed to work flawlessly with them.

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

But I agree, they can create very stable SL firmware

Perhaps is Panasonic doing a part of the work with much more man power.

vor 6 Minuten schrieb lct:

Is there a word for post-release tests, theta-testing? Glad people like you are interested enough in helping Leica while a mere hand coding could fix the issue.

Leica is a small company. There were no freezes at the end of the beta phase. But about 20 tester cannot detect all. 

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7 minutes ago, elmars said:

Perhaps is Panasonic doing a part of the work with much more man power.

Leica is a small company. There were no freezes at the end of the beta phase. But about 20 tester cannot detect all. 

 I can understand this. Would be interesting to know if owning or otherwise using uncoded lenses was a prerequisite for beta testers.

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9 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I’m an doing the Lord’s work here.

In seriousness, though, my Leica lenses are working flawlessly, so I can wait for a fix to be able to use my CV 35 1.5 now that I know Leica is still working on fixing the remaining freeze issues. The exact words that the Leica contact used were, “…we are putting a lot of effort into resolving the freeze issues.” 

As I understand it, every launch of a new digital M had issues compared to the later P models, so I had an idea of what I might be in foe. But I agree, they can create very stable SL firmware but seem to struggle with the firmware for the M cameras. Adding off-sensor metering full-time on the M11 probably required a rewrite of much of the existing code from the M10 cameras.

Personally, I think camera testing is interesting, and can help to understand the camera's normal functions better.  The ASIC that Leica calls the Maestro 3 (or is it still 2?) has an ARM processor, I am told, and the firmware, apparently by an M team, not a Panasonic or Panaleica SL team, is ground-up new to the M.  Converting from a very one-step-at-a-time M world to a system that appears to have many things in flight at the same time can cause race conditions.  This is exacerbated by the fact that we use cards ranging from 300 MBps back to the stone age, but the chief problem seems to be gathering exposure and AWB information and getting all the ducks lined up before allowing the exposure to proceed.  Once someone finds a way to abuse the camera and cause a freeze fairly reliably, it gets fixed in the next release.  I'm sure Leica has a few people trying these things at random, but there are more of us and it doesn't take any proprietary information.

a code for freezes could be:  F3 reset with power on/off; F2 reset with battery out for a moment; F1 send it back to dealer or to Wetzlar.  I see an F3 every now and then, and have with previous models.  Haven't seen an F2 in a long time and never had an F1. 

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3 hours ago, ianforber said:

I’ve not had any freezes with my CV 35 f1.5. Lens detection remains at Auto and I picked a 35mm f1.4 Summilux profile from the camera list of M lenses rather than hand code the lens.

Have you ever let it stay on Auto + Uncoded for a few days?

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7 hours ago, elmars said:

Perhaps is Panasonic doing a part of the work with much more man power.

Leica is a small company. There were no freezes at the end of the beta phase. But about 20 tester cannot detect all. 

I thought the same thing, Panasonic versus Leica. My SL2-S with the M-Adapter-L has no problems with my uncoded 35 1.5, but the logic behind the SL2 firmware is more intuitive. The SL2 prompts the user to agree with or set the profile every time a different M lens is detected by the adapter. The way the M11 selects the profile or uses “Uncoded” without a prompt at startup seems to be where the freeze occurs.

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I had a freeze a couple of days ago with the Visoflex 2 mounted. The only thing that worked was the eye sensor for the Visoflex 2 which turned on / off. Otherwise every button was dysfunctional. Removing & inserting the battery fixed this issue.

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Using my M11, I took some test shots with a CV50/1.5 and a pre-M Summicron 50/2.0 (the paint marks have worn off.  Coded both at an older 50/1.4, no problems.  Returned to my normal APO 35, also no problem.  When does the freeze occur?

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5 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Using my M11, I took some test shots with a CV50/1.5 and a pre-M Summicron 50/2.0 (the paint marks have worn off.  Coded both at an older 50/1.4, no problems.  Returned to my normal APO 35, also no problem.  When does the freeze occur?

Just taking a few test shots isn’t enough to provoke a freeze. As Q mentioned, for us it’s just at startup. You need to use it through the day for an entire day turning it off and on. 

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  • Jan Y changed the title to Repaired under warranty (freezing)

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