M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[Warton]

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4 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

Freeze-up threads are organic and are therefore susceptible to mitosis. 

now you are a biologist?

[J S H]

2 hours ago, Corius said:

Do we really need another thread on this?

I thought we'd only just merged them into one and now it's bifurcating again.

I have been very fortunate that my M11 has behaved pretty well. Maybe one freeze a week before 1.6.1 and none since. I assume yours has no issues as well. We are the lucky ones.

Until Leica solves this problem for every user, those with continuing issues need all the help they can get. One more thread with a fresh approach isn't going to hurt a thing. SJH is obviously trying to bring his experience to bear on the issue. No one is making you read the thread, so maybe you can just ignore it without complaint. 

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[Corius]

6 minutes ago, J S H said:

I have been very fortunate that my M11 has behaved pretty well. Maybe one freeze a week before 1.6.1 and none since. I assume yours has no issues as well. We are the lucky ones.

Until Leica solves this problem for every user, those with continuing issues need all the help they can get. One more thread with a fresh approach isn't going to hurt a thing. SJH is obviously trying to bring his experience to bear on the issue. No one is making you read the thread, so maybe you can just ignore it without complaint. 

Ah, but I am interested in freeze ups, although I have only had two a few months ago, but I'd like to just go to one thread to read about them.

[J S H]

4 minutes ago, Corius said:

Ah, but I am interested in freeze ups, although I have only had two a few months ago, but I'd like to just go to one thread to read about them.

Bear in mind, that older thread is 60 pages and now full of outdated information. A fresh thread built on diagnosing issues within the current framework of 1.6.1 makes perfect sense and is useful if it helps just one owner. 

[insomnia]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Corius:

Do we really need another thread on this?

I thought we'd only just merged them into one and now it's bifurcating again.

the man is a CEO (!!), let him have his thread

[Herr Barnack]

2 hours ago, Warton said:

now you are a biologist?

To quote Doc Holliday in the movie Wyatt Earp:  "I'm a sportin' man."  😎

Edited March 22, 2023 by Herr Barnack

[jaapv]

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9 hours ago, Qlan said:

And I figured out what is causing this. It seems like my manual coding of the lens is fading, so I put another layer of paint. And no more shutter issues! If I try to partially erase the paint or just let it be for a few days, the shutter bugs out again, infrequently at first, but consistently each time after a while. So it seems like the code reader attempts to read the code one second after pressing the shutter? (How often does it try to read the code when the camera is idle?) And when it can't find a code during a shot, it will simply stop the shot.

Might it be that in their design Leica assumed properly coded lenses, not half-way faded ones?

[hdmesa]

13 hours ago, Corius said:

…and now it's bifurcating again.

Just like some M10M sensors.

[SJH]

On 3/22/2023 at 11:11 AM, insomnia said:

the man is a CEO (!!), let him have his thread

Was just trying to help as I get the ‘we have a problem’ type panics reasonably often!!! 😂🤣

[hdmesa]

Trying the M11 yet one more time. This is M11 number four. First one had a misaligned rangefinder, second two had freezes. So far no freezes with the newest one on the latest firmware.

[Leica Filmmatic]

I have had my M11 for about 3 weeks and no freezes to speak of 

[hdmesa]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:02 AM, Qlan said:

I am also a software engineer, so I think I now have a good understanding of why freezes are still happening to me on 2 different bodies after many tests. I think it is a firmware issue.

My hypothesis is that the lens detection module (6-bit code reader) has bugs. First, it is never off, it is always trying to read the code (at what frequency I don't know). I am using third party lenses, so no 6-bit code. Also I change lenses very frequently when I'm out shooting (20+ times in a day). Most of my freezes happen at startup, after changing the lens. I also notice that sometimes the quick menu will show "No lens" or "Uncoded" for the lens selection for a split second before going back to the "manual M" setting I chose.

I decided to finally manually code my lenses and see if that makes a difference. My painting is not great, so I guess the code reader sometimes has trouble reading the code and bugs out.

After I coded my lenses, I got a new bug: the mechanical shutter doesn't respect the shutter speed I chose and stops at 1s (or sometimes 1.5s, 2s) (only for shutter speed >1s). See this thread.

And I figured out what is causing this. It seems like my manual coding of the lens is fading, so I put another layer of paint. And no more shutter issues! If I try to partially erase the paint or just let it be for a few days, the shutter bugs out again, infrequently at first, but consistently each time after a while. So it seems like the code reader attempts to read the code one second after pressing the shutter? (How often does it try to read the code when the camera is idle?) And when it can't find a code during a shot, it will simply stop the shot.

Maybe the shutter issue is not related to the freeze issue, but that's 2 bugs I experienced that are related to the code reader.

My situation may be uncommon: non-coded lenses, using manual M lens selection (because I want to use 1/(xf) min shutter speed and also get the lens info in the exif) and changing lenses frequently.

I did send videos and descriptions of the bugs to Leica.

I ended up buying a 50 Summilux as well as the 35mm Summilux steel rim re-issue so if my hypothesis is correct, I won't experience freezes anymore. But I still have a Voigtlander 28mm Ultron II which I'll use from time to time, so I'll keep you updated...

Are you still experiencing freezes with the Leica coded lenses?

My fourth brand new M11 started freezing yesterday both with Leica 6-bit coded and Voigtlander non-coded lenses. I had updated the firmware right out of the box but hadn't done a full reset, so I did that. I also finally broke down and used the SD Card Formatter utility to do a time-intensive "Overwrite format" on mine. I also reformatted the card in the camera afterward. No more freezes so far, and the card seems more responsive as the red activity light on the camera doesn't stay lit as long when accessing the card.

[Qlan]

46 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Are you still experiencing freezes with the Leica coded lenses?

My fourth brand new M11 started freezing yesterday both with Leica 6-bit coded and Voigtlander non-coded lenses. I had updated the firmware right out of the box but hadn't done a full reset, so I did that. I also finally broke down and used the SD Card Formatter utility to do a time-intensive "Overwrite format" on mine. I also reformatted the card in the camera afterward. No more freezes so far, and the card seems more responsive as the red activity light on the camera doesn't stay lit as long when accessing the card.

Just got my third M11 a few days ago. Haven’t shot a lot so cannot tell no freezes so far (but that’s very weak evidence). 

[hdmesa]

24 minutes ago, Qlan said:

Just got my third M11 a few days ago. Haven’t shot a lot so cannot tell no freezes so far (but that’s very weak evidence). 

Ok, wishing you luck. Highly recommend trying that official SD card formatter utility on your SD card.

[Qlan]

2 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Ok, wishing you luck. Highly recommend trying that official SD card formatter utility on your SD card.

I tried… still getting freezes (on my previous M11)

Edited March 26, 2023 by Qlan

[hdmesa]

Freezes have come back for my fourth M11. At this point, I've done everything suggested herein:

• Current firmware
• Full reset of camera
• Saving a user profile
• Using only 6-bit coded lenses
• Formatting SD cards with 3rd party utility
• Trying slower UHS-I SD card
• Etc.

– except trying a completely new SD card. I supposed it's possible I've received three defective units (first unit had a rangefinder issue), but it seems that something I'm doing could be common denominator – either settings or SD cards. Currently have been using Sandisk and Sony Tough in multiple speeds and capacities, all of which work flawlessly in my SL2-S. I've ordered a Delkin Black 64gb UHS-II as a last attempt to stop the freezing. Will report back. Not expecting a remedy, but I think it makes sense to try.

[Qlan]

1 minute ago, hdmesa said:

Freezes have come back for my fourth M11. At this point, I've done everything suggested herein:

• Current firmware
• Full reset of camera
• Saving a user profile
• Using only 6-bit coded lenses
• Formatting SD cards with 3rd party utility
• Trying slower UHS-I SD card
• Etc.

– except trying a completely new SD card. I supposed it's possible I've received three defective units (first unit had a rangefinder issue), but it seems that something I'm doing could be common denominator – either settings or SD cards. Currently have been using Sandisk and Sony Tough in multiple speeds and capacities, all of which work flawlessly in my SL2-S. I've ordered a Delkin Black 64gb UHS-II as a last attempt to stop the freezing. Will report back. Not expecting a remedy, but I think it makes sense to try.

Sorry to hear that. FYI, I also purchased a Delkin black 64gb UHS-II and still had freezes on my second M11. 

[hdmesa]

40 minutes ago, Qlan said:

Sorry to hear that. FYI, I also purchased a Delkin black 64gb UHS-II and still had freezes on my second M11. 

Yeah, I remember that. Thought I still try anyway. Crazy to me that there are people who actually have properly working M11s right now. I'm starting to think everyone with a "good one" are just gaslighting the rest of us.

Edited March 29, 2023 by hdmesa
grammar

[jakontil]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Freezes have come back for my fourth M11. At this point, I've done everything suggested herein:

• Current firmware
• Full reset of camera
• Saving a user profile
• Using only 6-bit coded lenses
• Formatting SD cards with 3rd party utility
• Trying slower UHS-I SD card
• Etc.

– except trying a completely new SD card. I supposed it's possible I've received three defective units (first unit had a rangefinder issue), but it seems that something I'm doing could be common denominator – either settings or SD cards. Currently have been using Sandisk and Sony Tough in multiple speeds and capacities, all of which work flawlessly in my SL2-S. I've ordered a Delkin Black 64gb UHS-II as a last attempt to stop the freezing. Will report back. Not expecting a remedy, but I think it makes sense to try.

I had 3 freezes prior 1.6.1 but since i disabled standby mode, it didnt have any… however i was itching so enabled back standby mode after installing 1.6.1, freeze 3 times dont know if it’s relevant, same shooting scenarios 200-300 exposures

now back to disabling it.. doing ok but havent shot as intensively 

using Sony UHS II 300 mb/s, i was considering adding a sandisk but might hold a little

i used an uncoded lens too, no problem but sparingly

Edited March 29, 2023 by jakontil

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[hdmesa]

57 minutes ago, jakontil said:

I had 3 freezes prior 1.6.1 but since i disabled standby mode, it didnt have any… however i was itching so enabled back standby mode after installing 1.6.1, freeze 3 times dont know if it’s relevant, same shooting scenarios 200-300 exposures

now back to disabling it.. doing ok but havent shot as intensively 

using Sony UHS II 300 mb/s, i was considering adding a sandisk but might hold a little

i used an uncoded lens too, no problem but sparingly

I'll give that a try. I'd tried that with previous firmware, but not with 1.6.1.

All my freezes are on startup, and it seems to be waking from sleep just fine. I have a junk theory that the M11 is doing some sort of memory check every X-number of startups, every X-number of shots, or every X-minutes of use (similar to how every 2 weeks we know the camera will run a hot pixel check at power-off), and with some settings and/or units, this check is causing a freeze.

Edited March 29, 2023 by hdmesa