M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[lct]

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14 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I'm asking if specifically the 35 1.5 has the "COSINA CO, LTD" engraving too close to where the 6-bit code should go.

I have no experience with this lens but i don't think so. See the CV 28/2's flange below.

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[Kwesi]

4 minutes ago, lct said:

I have no experience with this lens but i don't think so. See the CV 28/2's flange below.

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1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Update: After flawlessly using both the 35 and 50 Cron, I switch back to the CV 35 1.5. Got freezes after the first few off/on cycles. Reset the camera the put on the 50 Cron. Had to reset it one more time, now it's ok.

So I pulled off the CV lens and compared it to the Cron. Is it possible that Voigtlander put their engraving too close to where the 6-bit code goes? This doesn't confuse my SL2-S with M-Adapter-L, but it could be messing with the code reader on the M11.

It doesn't look like the engraving is in the same position.

HDMesa, why not try a cheap Chinese flange to test your theory? chances are the focus will be off but if the camera doesn't freeze then send it off to DAG and have him code it it with a proper flange for you

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[hdmesa]

4 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

 

It doesn't look like the engraving is in the same position.

HDMesa, why not try a cheap Chinese flange to test your theory? chances are the focus will be off but if the camera doesn't freeze then send it off to DAG and have him code it it with a proper flange for you

I have the CV 75 1.9 inbound, arriving tomorrow or Friday. If my M11 works with the 75 without freeing, then I will know it's something about the 35 1.5 causing the problem. If that's the case, I will have to decide whether to just sell it or have it 6-bit coded.

Since my M11 is not freezing during use, it absolutely has to be something the camera does at startup. Aside from it checking the SD card, I can't think of a more obvious culprit than the camera scanning for the 6-bit code.

I also still need to try turning Lens Detection "off" every time before attaching the 35 1.5 to see if that fixes the issue. I tried that under previous firmware but not 1.6.1.

[Kwesi]

Just now, hdmesa said:

I have the CV 75 1.9 inbound, arriving tomorrow or Friday. If my M11 works with the 75 without freeing, then I will know it's something about the 35 1.5 causing the problem. If that's the case, I will have to decide whether to just sell it or have it 6-bit coded.

Since my M11 is not freezing during use, it absolutely has to be something the camera does at startup. Aside from it checking the SD card, I can't think of a more obvious culprit than the camera scanning for the 6-bit code.

I also still need to try turning Lens Detection "off" every time before attaching the 35 1.5 to see if that fixes the issue. I tried that under previous firmware but not 1.6.1.

Im surprised cosine put the text in that spot for that lens - clearly someone wasn't thinking

[Qlan]

3 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I have the CV 75 1.9 inbound, arriving tomorrow or Friday. If my M11 works with the 75 without freeing, then I will know it's something about the 35 1.5 causing the problem. If that's the case, I will have to decide whether to just sell it or have it 6-bit coded.

Since my M11 is not freezing during use, it absolutely has to be something the camera does at startup. Aside from it checking the SD card, I can't think of a more obvious culprit than the camera scanning for the 6-bit code.

I also still need to try turning Lens Detection "off" every time before attaching the 35 1.5 to see if that fixes the issue. I tried that under previous firmware but not 1.6.1.

I had similar freezes (at startup) with a Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II and a Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO.

Also Lens Detection Off doesn't matter, it will still try to read the code... I think I still had freezes when I set it to Off.

[hdmesa]

Just now, Qlan said:

I had similar freezes (at startup) with a Voigtlander 28mm f/2 Ultron II and a Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO.

Also Lens Detection Off doesn't matter, it will still try to read the code... I think I still had freezes when I set it to Off.

Me, too, but I only tried turning it off under previous firmware versions. Did you try turning it off with 1.6.1? I'm not expecting any change, but you never know.

[lct]

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3 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Did you try turning it off with 1.6.1?

Depends if the lens is hand-coded or not. If it is so, the camera will give priority to hand-coding. If it is not, the camera will keep the code it has in memory, if any, or will consider lens detection "Off".

[hdmesa]

Speaking of lens detection:

Is it normal to turn lens detection "off" and expect it to stay off? If I have a 6-bit coded lens attached, it's always back on Auto when I turn the camera back on.

[Qlan]

6 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Speaking of lens detection:

Is it normal to turn lens detection "off" and expect it to stay off? If I have a 6-bit coded lens attached, it's always back on Auto when I turn the camera back on.

Yes, that is normal behavior (even though I and others disagree and would like it to stay off). It's explained in the manual. And this is in my opinion the source of all evils, since the camera continuously tries to read the code regardless of what setting you have.

[hdmesa]

Just now, Qlan said:

Yes, that is normal behavior (even though I and others disagree and would like it to stay off). It's explained in the manual. And this is in my opinion the source of all evils, since the camera continuously tries to read the code regardless of what setting you have.

That's what I thought. From now on, when I switch from a 6-bit coded lens to an uncoded one, I will turn off lens detection, turn off the camera, then switch lenses. I confirmed it stays in the "off" state when the next lens attached is non-coded. I don't know if this will stop the freezing with uncoded lenses, but I'll try and report back. So far so good on several on/off cycles with the 35 1.5.

[lct]

15 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Speaking of lens detection:

Is it normal to turn lens detection "off" and expect it to stay off? If I have a 6-bit coded lens attached, it's always back on Auto when I turn the camera back on.

The camera is supposed to give priority to coded vs uncoded lenses in my understanding. Rightly so IMHO, because current Leica lenses are coded and current CV & ZM lenses allow for hand-coding easily.

[Qlan]

8 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

That's what I thought. From now on, when I switch from a 6-bit coded lens to an uncoded one, I will turn off lens detection, turn off the camera, then switch lenses. I confirmed it stays in the "off" state when the next lens attached is non-coded. I don't know if this will stop the freezing with uncoded lenses, but I'll try and report back. So far so good on several on/off cycles with the 35 1.5.

Btw, when you test this, don't just turn the camera on and off, but also remove the lens and attach it (from time to time). In my experience (and yours as well it seems like), a freeze is more likely to happen after changing a lens, so maybe there's something to do with the lens detection contact point.

[hdmesa]

5 minutes ago, lct said:

The camera is supposed to give priority to coded vs uncoded lenses in my understanding. Rightly so IMHO, because current Leica lenses are coded and current CV & ZM lenses allow for hand-coding easily.

That makes sense. But also think about the person who wants to have their lens detection always off even with 6-bit coded lenses. They would have to turn lens detection off every time they turn on the camera. That seems like an odd way to engineer it to me. I guess Leica's ethos/intent is for corrections to always be on for their lenses if so coded.

[Qlan]

Just now, hdmesa said:

That makes sense. But also think about the person who wants to have their lens detection always off even with 6-bit coded lenses. They would have to turn lens detection off every time they turn on the camera. That seems like an odd way to engineer it to me. I guess Leica's ethos/intent is for corrections to always be on for their lenses if so coded.

That doesn't work. You cannot turn it off if you have a lens with a 6-bit code. It will jump back to Auto.

[hdmesa]

2 minutes ago, Qlan said:

That doesn't work. You cannot turn it off if you have a lens with a 6-bit code. It will jump back to Auto.

It stays off until you power it off and back on (or perhaps until it wakes from sleep), at least on 1.6.1.

[Qlan]

Just now, hdmesa said:

It stays off until you power it off and back on (or perhaps until it wakes from sleep), at least on 1.6.1.

Hum that's new to me. I'll try it out. Does it stay off even after taking a picture, or letting the camera be idle for a few seconds?

[lct]

9 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

That makes sense. But also think about the person who wants to have their lens detection always off [...]

Happens to me with my few uncoded lenses (S-A 21/3.4, T-E 135/4, Konica 50/2). The camera will then keep the code it has in memory, if any, or consider lens detection "Off".

Edited March 29, 2023 by lct

[hdmesa]

Just now, Qlan said:

Hum that's new to me. I'll try it out. Does it stay off even after taking a picture, or letting the camera be idle for a few seconds?

Yes, but I also have all sleep settings turned off.

[elmars]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

So far this morning I haven't had any freezes after trying some different things in combination. Not sure if it will last, but usually it would have already frozen on the first or second startup the morning:

• Coded lens
• Sleep settings off for display and camera
• Saved a user profile (realized I hadn't done that yet under 1.6.1)
• Went back to Multi-field metering instead of Highlight-weighted
• Not using the thumb grip (crazy, but could the thumb grip be hitting a contact on the hotshoe and causing a freeze?)
• Using the Sandisk 64 UHS-II while I wait on the Delkin Black

I use sleep settings (formerly 10 min, now 30 min) and Multifield metering as well as Highlight weighted. These settings are imho not the reason for the freezes.

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[hdmesa]

1 minute ago, elmars said:

I use sleep settings (formerly 10 min, now 30 min) and Multifield metering as well as Highlight weighted. These settings are imho not the reason for the freezes.

Thanks, yes, my next step is to now turn sleep back on.

I think it's directly linked to leaving lens detection set to Auto when using a non-coded lens. Previous to 1.6.1, turning lens detection off didn't help, but it seems to now.