Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

[lct]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

30 minutes ago, cirke said:

only the useless play button would be enough

Why useless? It is essential for me. YMMV.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Steven said:

I have to admit that all this M11 talk and speculation are making me want to buy an M10D again. It might become a timeless classic now. 

I forgot to say: I've asked if we can hope to ever see an M11D. I was told that Leica has probably given up on screen less digital cameras. The M10D might just be the last of it's kind. 

Probably not a ridiculous idea Steven. The M10-D is a very nice camera, in my case if only during the times it isn't back home in Wetzlar, and it is as you hint probably one that could appreciate nicely because of it's rarity. But even with it's quirks it is the best digital Leica M to use in my opinion. However I do wish that Leica had made it simpler, purer, like the original MD that was based on the M240 body shape and size and kept it free of the electronic "add-ons" they incorporated into the M10-D version. It's the electronics that have proven to be it's Achilles heel, somewhat unreliable and quite annoying in my experience, the WiFi / Foto's link-up can be quite frustrating, and the GPS being "always on" when the 020 Visoflex is mounted is a stupid waste of good battery usage.The camera should not have been made so dependent on WiFi and Fotos, it should in that respect been just like the original MD but in M10 form..............But that horse has left the barn and is well over the hill now.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[michaelbrenner]

1 minute ago, petermullett said:

...The camera should not have been made so dependent on WiFi and Fotos,...

An M should be a -- first and always -- a camera and not a computer.  The critical purpose of an M is to take pictures.  All other properties should be secondary, if even included at all.  Realistically, what matters more to an M user -- capturing the moment or having WiFi/GPS running?  The essential use of an M often precludes WiFi as there often is no network availability where one is likely to use an M.  GPS is certainly convenient, but not at the expense of greatly-shortened battery life.  I would venture to suggest that most M shooters have top priority of capturing that magic moment and could care less about WiFi or GPS, if it means missing the moment.  For example, if waking up the camera or turning it on is slowed by WiFi or GPS, I certainly would not want those features active.  My "priority" and that of the M camera ought always be to GET THE PICTURE as quickly as one can before the moment is lost or missed.  There is nothing so frustrating in photography as to watch that magic moment go by with one's eyes while frantically trying to get a picture only be held back by the camera not being ready.  A properly configured M camera should "out draw" any other modern camera on the market as all settings are already set and the shutter merely needs to be released.  Not so, if you are sitting there waiting for the M to "get ready."

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, adan said:

Don't knock it!

That is essentially the first camera I ever used to take pictures with artistic intent (rather than just family snapshots).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_(camera)

They were handed out to all the students in my introductory art class in high school (ca. 1970), to explore line and shape and pattern and texture and so on.

It kicked off a life-time career.

I'm not. I have two of them and I use them for "fun" moments. One has a permanent Instax Back glued, the other takes 120. The images are almost always blurry, never in focus and absolutely unpredictable, but they have a mood and a look I'm unable to replicate in post. If I want precision and sharpness I have other cameras, both film and digital. Besides, you can say what you want about the current Lomography company, but they did maintain film alive and "hip" for new generations to try. 

[evikne]

24 minutes ago, michaelbrenner said:

An M should be a -- first and always -- a camera and not a computer.  The critical purpose of an M is to take pictures.  All other properties should be secondary, if even included at all.  Realistically, what matters more to an M user -- capturing the moment or having WiFi/GPS running?  The essential use of an M often precludes WiFi as there often is no network availability where one is likely to use an M.  GPS is certainly convenient, but not at the expense of greatly-shortened battery life.  I would venture to suggest that most M shooters have top priority of capturing that magic moment and could care less about WiFi or GPS, if it means missing the moment.  For example, if waking up the camera or turning it on is slowed by WiFi or GPS, I certainly would not want those features active.  My "priority" and that of the M camera ought always be to GET THE PICTURE as quickly as one can before the moment is lost or missed.  There is nothing so frustrating in photography as to watch that magic moment go by with one's eyes while frantically trying to get a picture only be held back by the camera not being ready.  A properly configured M camera should "out draw" any other modern camera on the market as all settings are already set and the shutter merely needs to be released.  Not so, if you are sitting there waiting for the M to "get ready."

Leica was so close to the perfect camera with the M10-D. The ideal D model would be an analog M, only with a digital sensor. It should be as independent as possible of other time- and power-consuming solutions.

[horosu]

3 minutes ago, evikne said:

Leica was so close to the perfect camera with the M10-D. The ideal D model would be an analog M, only with a digital sensor. It should be as independent as possible of other time- and power-consuming solutions.

That would be the M-D:

Black paint? √

ISO wheel on the back, where it belongs? √

No WiFi, GPS, etc? √

Only battery life and card capacity visible? √

 

[evikne]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

7 minutes ago, horosu said:

That would be the M-D:

Black paint? √

ISO wheel on the back, where it belongs? √

No WiFi, GPS, etc? √

Only battery life and card capacity visible? √

You forgot "only with a digital sensor". I still want that. 😉

[ianman]

15 minutes ago, horosu said:

That would be the M-D:

Black paint? √

ISO wheel on the back, where it belongs? √

No WiFi, GPS, etc? √

Only battery life and card capacity visible? √

 

If based on a film M it would also need the frameline illumination window.

[ianman]

As things are looking my next camera could be a Hasselblad.

[earleygallery]

53 minutes ago, michaelbrenner said:

The essential use of an M often precludes WiFi as there often is no network availability where one is likely to use an M. 

Where do you think most M users use their cameras? Looking at random examples in the photo forums would suggest city centres and residential suburbs, where I think wifi is not an issue.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, michaelbrenner said:

An M should be a -- first and always -- a camera and not a computer.  The critical purpose of an M is to take pictures.  All other properties should be secondary, if even included at all.  Realistically, what matters more to an M user -- capturing the moment or having WiFi/GPS running?  The essential use of an M often precludes WiFi as there often is no network availability where one is likely to use an M.  GPS is certainly convenient, but not at the expense of greatly-shortened battery life.  

<snip>

If you carry a smartphone then there is a WiFi close by. AFAIK, it is mainly used to transfer photos to the phone.

GPS via BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) does not decrease camera's battery life.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

As things are looking my next camera could be a Hasselblad.

Is M10R not an option? Nothing wrong with a Hasselblad, but that is a completely different camera.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

As things are looking my next camera could be a Hasselblad.

Choosing between Leica and Hasselblad, I’ve just put my entire Hasselblad X system up for sale.  Sticking with Leica.  

My enjoyment of my Leica gear is completely unaffected by whatever it is that Leica decides to do next.  I don’t need more MP, so the M10-R is irrelevant; the paint finish of some new camera doesn’t affect my enjoyment of what I have; and whatever happens to the CL, the TL, the SL or the next M doesn’t matter to me either.

Like you, I have an M-A (bought when the whole M9 corrosion thing happened - that annoyed me); I have the original M9 Monochrom, with new sensor (it’s silver chrome, and I fought to get it); and I have the M10-D (ordered from my hospital bed when I was having a bone marrow transplant for acute myeloid leukaemia).  Are any of them perfect?  No. But, they give me pleasure.  I can live with the Monochrom’s shutter sound, and I really like the M10-D (never liked the M240 series, so skipped it).  I did have an M60, but there was something about it I couldn’t bond with (it was probably the M240 form factor), though I did like its purity.

Strangely, when the M10 broke cover, I wrote to Stefan Daniel suggesting an M60 in M10 form, with WiFi and the ability to use the EVF.  So, I’m very happy with that camera indeed.  Without the WiFi and EVF, it has the purity of the M60; but with the option of adding them if needed.

Each to their own.  The Hasselblad X is a wonderful system, but it is bigger and slower than the M.  With the poor AF, and less than intuitive manual focusing, it lost out.  The images, though, were wonderful.

Hope this helps
John

Edited June 28, 2021 by IkarusJohn

[cirke]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

As things are looking my next camera could be a Hasselblad.

i wont bet on the future of Hasselblad

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, cirke said:

i wont bet on the future of Hasselblad

They got EVF so surely your happy with them? 

[ianman]

57 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Each to their own.  The Hasselblad X is a wonderful system, but it is bigger and slower than the M.  With the poor AF, and less than intuitive manual focusing, it lost out.  The images, though, were wonderful.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. The key word in my comment was “could”.  I’m sure a few members will have read (some no doubt with exasperation  ) my many posts raving about my M9. I am still very happy with that camera and I do not need anything more. Yes I have been tempted by the monochrom and “d” models but each time I just reach the same conclusion.

Like you I was annoyed, extremely, at the sensor debacle and at that time almost gave up on Leica completely. But when I finally did get my camera back with a new sensor the results seemed, to me, even better than before. The only time I might want a new digital M is when my M9 becomes unusable. At that time if the current M is attractive I may get one. But I wrote in my post “as things are looking”, meaning that based on the details Steven has shared ( and tbh, so far he has been spot on ), the road Leica is taking with the M is not looking attractive to me.

So why are my thoughts turning to the Hasselblad? I mainly shoot land/seascapes and nature. I take photos at a slow pace, like many of us having learned with film, I still shoot sparingly. Bigger, slower, poor AF are not issues for me. The V system seems very attractive and hopefully they will add a monochrome back at some point.

Anyway, we are not there yet... And I’ll always have my MP!

Edited June 28, 2021 by ianman

[ianman]

46 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Is M10R not an option? Nothing wrong with a Hasselblad, but that is a completely different camera.

That’s part of the attraction

 

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, ianman said:

That’s part of the attraction

 

That is why I choose M11 and X1D 100c. 🤣.

[Steven]

2 hours ago, ianman said:

As things are looking my next camera could be a Hasselblad.

Which one and why ? 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Steven]

48 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

(ordered from my hospital bed when I was having a bone marrow transplant for acute myeloid leukaemia).

Sorry to hear. Hope you are better now.