stevelap Posted November 5, 2013 Share #41 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, The question is what one gain from NOT having the high MP sensor (as in D800), The answer seems surprisingly not much, or am I missing something here? Judging on data you gain a little on low-light performance, perhaps most on less noise and great tonality, but you loose color depth and dynamics. See comparison on Compare cameras side by side - DxOMarkDXOMark Other than older lenses versus high mpx sensor compatibility mentioned above, it might be that it was more a case of what sensor Nikon wanted to use in the Df for their own business reasons, rather than performance considerations (unless there were unknown technical issues). Perhaps they felt that using either of the 24 or 36 mpx sensors might eat into sales of the D610/D800, whereas the Df is less likely to impact upon sales of the full-size D4. Edited November 5, 2013 by stevelap Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Hi stevelap, Take a look here Nikon, steps in with an alternative....{merged}.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted November 5, 2013 Share #42 Posted November 5, 2013 Manual lenses w/o split image or microprism focus screen? Been there thanks no thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted November 5, 2013 Share #43 Posted November 5, 2013 People have been saying that using a lower MP sensor would help in obtaining decent results with older lenses. Really? Well they are wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angora Posted November 5, 2013 Share #44 Posted November 5, 2013 Ming Thein's take on this announced cam: To be honest, I really don’t quite know what to make of this camera. On one hand, I think Nikon needs to be applauded for at least attempting to provide a product that caters to the online clamouring for something that retains the sensible ergonomics of the late manual focus film era; on the other hand, I think they ought to be slapped for messing it up into a near miss. I believe this camera is going to be hugely successful. It is positioned very carefully as the anti-A7/A7r; but for the purist, it will be bypassed as a near miss. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 5, 2013 Share #45 Posted November 5, 2013 Would it be the smallest FF DSLR? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted November 5, 2013 Share #46 Posted November 5, 2013 Yeah, wish they toned down the buttons etc on this one. The silver/panda model is fugly to say the least, though the black one looks decent as it blends the old and new stylings. Anyway, proof will be in the actual handling. The VF may not interchangeable screens but if it's big and bright enough may not be a non-issue. I bought an aftermarket split prism for my D3 and actually found it MORE difficult to focus than the standard. But maybe if Nikon had implemented their own it would work better. Anyway, just wait a year and it will be discounted (or refurbs picked up for a lot less). This body appeals to me a lot more than my D600 (never had dust problems) but I'll lose a lot if I sell so it will have to really have the right feel to it to switch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted November 5, 2013 Share #47 Posted November 5, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ugly from all angles and not that small either. Steve 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 5, 2013 Share #48 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Would it be the smallest FF DSLR? Marginally - very marginally - smaller than a Canon 6D, if you look at the measurements on the respective websites. The Canon has a much deeper handgrip which will account for the last measurement. Canon 144.5 X 110.5 X 71.2 mm 755g Nikon 143.5 X 110.0 X 66.5 mm 760g Would the size alone of the Nikon DF be a reason to buy it? Edited November 5, 2013 by earleygallery Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted November 5, 2013 Share #49 Posted November 5, 2013 No optional split screen: are you kidding me? That's a major disappointment. This is where Nikon has really messed up the execution. Why take great care to ensure retrocompatibility with legacy lenses, and to make it possible to operate the camera without having to chimp at the LCD screen... only to forget addressing the focusing concerns? Really, this is utterly silly. Spot on. I would even call it borderline retarded. Even Canon offers focusing screen replacements for MF on their modern workhorse cameras, which takes like five minutes to swap. So... WTF Nikon? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted November 5, 2013 Share #50 Posted November 5, 2013 Really? Well they are wrong. Would you care to elaborate, I know personally of one lens (Nikkor 24/2.8) where this is the case, i.e. in spite of being an SLR lens the higher the pixel density the worse it performs, and certainly worse than on film. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 5, 2013 Share #51 Posted November 5, 2013 ...Even Canon offers focusing screen replacements for MF on their modern workhorse cameras... Split image focus screens? On which camera if i may ask? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted November 5, 2013 Share #52 Posted November 5, 2013 Ugly from all angles and not that small either. Steve Beauty and the eye of the beholder etc , but I agree it's not as small as I'd hoped, just a little smaller and lighter than the D600/610. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted November 5, 2013 Share #53 Posted November 5, 2013 Would you care to elaborate, I know personally of one lens (Nikkor 24/2.8) where this is the case, i.e. in spite of being an SLR lens the higher the pixel density the worse it performs, and certainly worse than on film. Gerry In what way does it perform worse and what are the root causes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted November 5, 2013 Share #54 Posted November 5, 2013 ...........Would the size alone of the Nikon DF be a reason to buy it? Not alone, but size is now a key driver for me James, as far as DSLR's are concerned. I was hoping the Df would be smaller but after seeing the teaser video screenshots I wasn't holding my breath....... It looks like it's still mirror-less and m4/3rds if small size is critical. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted November 5, 2013 Share #55 Posted November 5, 2013 In what way does it perform worse and what are the root causes? Less sharp at the corners at larger apertures, is worse on the D200 than on film, and even worse on my D7000, takes till f/8 to get usefully sharp, see Photozone tests:- Nikkor AF 24mm f/2.8D - Review / Test Report Nikkor AF 24mm f/2.8 D (DX) - Review / Lab Test Report Full frame. lower pixel density than either of the above: Nikkor AF 24mm f/2.8 D (FX) - Review / Test Report This makes me doubt the almost universal assumption that slr lenses will perform OK on mirrorless cameras, such as the A7/A7R Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted November 5, 2013 Share #56 Posted November 5, 2013 Less sharp at the corners at larger apertures, is worse on the D200 than on film, and even worse on my D7000, takes till f/8 to get usefully sharp. And it is noted in your links that this lens suffers from image curvature (which may well be tolerated better by film than digital). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted November 5, 2013 Share #57 Posted November 5, 2013 Yes, but that wouldn't explain the variable performance on digital sensors. I have used it on film for 20+ years, and while it isn't as good as my lovely 21/2.8 Elmarit asph. it was perfectly OK. The theory was it would make a good 35mm equiv. on APS-C especially as the corners are cropped off. It worked OK on a borrowed D80, but didn't seem so good on the D7000 when I bought it, and then the Photozone test came out.... Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted November 5, 2013 Share #58 Posted November 5, 2013 Yeah, wish they toned down the buttons etc on this one. The silver/panda model is fugly to say the least, though the black one looks decent as it blends the old and new stylings. Anyway, proof will be in the actual handling. The VF may not interchangeable screens but if it's big and bright enough may not be a non-issue. I bought an aftermarket split prism for my D3 and actually found it MORE difficult to focus than the standard. But maybe if Nikon had implemented their own it would work better. Anyway, just wait a year and it will be discounted (or refurbs picked up for a lot less). This body appeals to me a lot more than my D600 (never had dust problems) but I'll lose a lot if I sell so it will have to really have the right feel to it to switch. A pity that Nikon didn't use the D600/610's 24mpx sensor for the Df, that and a little more mass shaved off the body would have been very welcome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 5, 2013 Share #59 Posted November 5, 2013 Split image focus screens? On which camera if i may ask? I used a split image screen on my Canon 5D, though it wasn't manufactured by Canon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted November 5, 2013 Share #60 Posted November 5, 2013 I've changed out the screens on all my SLRs to plain groundglass instead of split image or microprism. I can focus faster with less distraction. The Nikon looks pretty close to what I'd like, but I only haev a few old Nikon lenses. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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