Luke_Miller Posted November 7, 2013 Share #101 Posted November 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I get focus confirmation as well with my unchipped Nikkors, but I have to shift my eye away from the viewfinder screen to see it. What I would like is to be able to see focus clearly on the viewfinder screen. I can sort of do it on my current Nikon DSLRs, but not well enough to give me a lot of confidence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 Hi Luke_Miller, Take a look here Nikon, steps in with an alternative....{merged}.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stevelap Posted November 7, 2013 Share #102 Posted November 7, 2013 A counterpoint from Thom Hogan to his earlier 'What Nikon got Wrong' and 'Digital (con)Fusion with the Nikon Df' essays What Nikon Got Right | byThom | Thom Hogan 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted November 8, 2013 Share #103 Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) I suspect most would agree that the DF was never envisioned by Nikon to be a camera for the majority of DSLR shooters. I like the dials - that is what I grew up on. While I have no issue with the "modern" Nikon DSLR designs I also remember fondly many cameras from my youth that had no battery hence no electronics. Dials is what you used, like it or not, and I had as much fun then as now. The D4 is the most capable camera I have ever used. Having its sensor in the Df is a big plus IMO. But I don't enjoy shooting with my D4. I enjoy the results it produces, but not the process. I do enjoy shooting with my digital Ms as well as the results I achieve. I would shoot them exclusively if I could get all of the shots my D4 allows. If the Df will allow me to focus my MF Nikkors I will undoubtedly get one. And then I'll enjoy my Nikon shoots a lot more. Edited November 8, 2013 by Luke_Miller 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert blu Posted November 8, 2013 Share #104 Posted November 8, 2013 When I shoot film beside my m7 I use more the FM2 than my F100, mainly because of simplicity, smaller size and weight. Now I have the AFD lenses I need plus a 50!1,4 AIS and no DSLR. My only digital camera is the Leica x1. I'm looking for a more versatile camera then the x1 and when rumors about DF came out was very interested in the hope of a digital replacement for the FM2. Now I can do with dials (one reason for which 3 years ago I bought the x1!) and the control of the df, but size and weight are not what expected (or wished). I think it could be the first step for Nikon in this direction (but at my age I cannot wait to much!) and I wait to have one in my hands to properly evaluate. robert PS: I know, the M could be my camera Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted November 9, 2013 Share #105 Posted November 9, 2013 As someone whose willing to pay a premium for well designed control layout on cameras, I think Nikon totally bungled the design of this new camera. The top plate looks amazingly cluttered. Some of the control dials seem to not have enough space around them for easy access. Didn't Nikon look at the layout of the M, XV, X1&2, Fuji's Xpro-1 build upon that layout? Why didn't they combine the On/Off switch with the mode dial? In this instance the focus on minimizing the size has been detrimental; a little bit more real estate would've gone a long way in making the top plate more useable (and less cluttered). I'm not in the market for a dSLR, and I'm definitely looking at the camera as an outsider. Maybe those who do use dSLRs will have different take on this camera. But if I had to choose between Canon's modal buttons/dial hell and the Nikon DF, I would chose the DF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 9, 2013 Share #106 Posted November 9, 2013 Have you actually used a Canon? Their DSLR controls are very intuitive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 9, 2013 Share #107 Posted November 9, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Have you actually used a Canon? Their DSLR controls are very intuitive. I agree plus I think most people can adapt to any camera given some time to put aside what you are used to. I used to shoot with a variety of cameras and formats that were very dissimilar. That being said, we all have our preferences. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted November 9, 2013 Share #108 Posted November 9, 2013 Have you actually used a Canon? Their DSLR controls are very intuitive. I agree plus I think most people can adapt to any camera given some time to put aside what you are used to. I used to shoot with a variety of cameras and formats that were very dissimilar. That being said, we all have our preferences. I used a 40D exclusively, than a Canon 5D2 for a few years exclusively. I never got used to the modal hell of Canon's layout. Of course the vast majority of dSLR users (considering Canon's got the biggest market share) do find Canon's layout adequate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 10, 2013 Share #109 Posted November 10, 2013 I used a 40D exclusively, than a Canon 5D2 for a few years exclusively. I never got used to the modal hell of Canon's layout. Of course the vast majority of dSLR users (considering Canon's got the biggest market share) do find Canon's layout adequate. I said MOST people. I am very used to that modal method and find it nearly instantaneous and reflexive in use just by feel. I do have all of the buttons memorized. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 10, 2013 Share #110 Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) I've been thinking that a simpler interface could have the standard manual settings and exposure bias that we are used to but could have a new method for program control... using a joystick type button to quickly move a program mode towards a bias for shutter speed, ISO, or F stop. It would quickly and simultaneously move all three values and display this info. in the viewfinder. Here is a diagram of how it would work. (There are so many cameras out there that perhaps one works this way already and I don't know it.) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited November 10, 2013 by AlanG 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/216043-nikon-steps-in-with-an-alternativemerged/?do=findComment&comment=2462322'>More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted November 10, 2013 Share #111 Posted November 10, 2013 I've been thinking that a simpler interface could have the standard manual settings and exposure bias that we are used to but could have a new method for program control... using a joystick type button to quickly move a program mode towards a bias towards shutter speed, ISO or F stop. It would quickly and simultaneously move all three values and display this info. in the viewfinder. Here is a diagram of how it would work. (There are so many cameras out there that perhaps one works this way already and I don't know it.) So...it would be quick but not refined(?)- the user would have rough idea of the settings the camera's going to use, but not the exact settings, until they are displayed in the VF/LCD. This in contrast to the Program mode which try's to maintain exposure while the user shifts values. I like your idea. It seems like it could be implemented in conjunction with existing systems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 10, 2013 Share #112 Posted November 10, 2013 So...it would be quick but not refined(?)- the user would have rough idea of the settings the camera's going to use, but not the exact settings, until they are displayed in the VF/LCD. This in contrast to the Program mode which try's to maintain exposure while the user shifts values.I like your idea. It seems like it could be implemented in conjunction with existing systems. Yeah my basic idea is that you either use manual (and look at the exposure meter) or use this method along with an exposure compensation wheel. You could probably program in limits in the menu so that you don't go beyond a certain ISO for instance. As cameras have gotten better I think worrying about having a high ISO is less important. A lot of cameras work this way when in Auto ISO but don't give you simultaneous control of all three values. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted November 10, 2013 Share #113 Posted November 10, 2013 Yeah my basic idea is that you either use manual (and look at the exposure meter) or use this method along with an exposure compensation wheel. You could probably program in limits in the menu so that you don't go beyond a certain ISO for instance. As cameras have gotten better I think worrying about having a high ISO is less important. A lot of cameras work this way when in Auto ISO but don't give you simultaneous control of all three values. Good stuff man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick De Marco Posted November 10, 2013 Share #114 Posted November 10, 2013 How about a Nikon DSP - a digital ff version of the wonderful Nikon sp - that would be super fun And how about a cheap option too - a digital fed df rangefinder too Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 11, 2013 Share #115 Posted November 11, 2013 @ Alan G What Canon do you use as I am trying to find an adapter that will work on my 5D3 for R lenses. Focus confirmation would be terrific, but I have read that some adapters messed up the 5D3 electronics with their chip. Any suggestions? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 11, 2013 Share #116 Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) @ Alan G What Canon do you use as I am trying to find an adapter that will work on my 5D3 for R lenses. Focus confirmation would be terrific, but I have read that some adapters messed up the 5D3 electronics with their chip. Any suggestions? Thanks. Sorry, I can't recommend an AF confirm adapter for the Mark III. The adapters that I have work on the Mark II but not on the Mark III. Maybe newer ones work on it but mine are older and give an ERR message. I don't care because I mostly use them on my PC lenses and those are pretty easy to scale focus since I am usually near infinity and stopped down or else I am tethered or use magnified live view focus. I also have a Novoflex adapter which is not chipped of course. Edited November 11, 2013 by AlanG Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted November 12, 2013 Share #117 Posted November 12, 2013 As cameras have gotten better I think worrying about having a high ISO is less important. I always leave my M8 at 160 ISO and adjust underexposure afterwards in PP - this works pretty well most of the time. Since changing ISO is simply 'boosting gain' it should be quite possible to have pure manual controls allowing desired aperture and shutter to be set, with a simple warning when exposure deviation exceeds specified limits:eek:. Or am I being too obtuse? Essentially this is how I often use the M8 and whatever the theoretical consequences (yes I know the ETTR lobby will be horrified and its an old camera, etc,) this way of working can be surprisingly satisfying and can yield effective images. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted November 12, 2013 Share #118 Posted November 12, 2013 Paul, not horrified at all. However, Jim Kasson has shown conclusively that, with the M9, image quality (including dynamic range) is optimized by increasing ISO in-camera up to ISO640 and then using the "Shoot at ISO640 and Push in LR4/LR5/" technique. This technique is discussed in this thread, of which post #101 has a listing of the exposure and processing steps in Lightroom. I would assume that the M8 would work the same way if it uses essentially the same sensor. —Mitch/Bangkok Tristes Tropiques [WIP] Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 12, 2013 Share #119 Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) I don't think you can just shoot at 100 ISO and then lift the dark images up to 6400+ in post. Some cameras go to 200,000 now. Besides, you won't see anything on the LCD when reviewing the images. So it would be pretty useless in practice for me in my applications. And talk about being time consuming in post. You couldn't even review your images until you've adjusted them. As a thought exercise, I'm just trying to come up with a fast and intuitive way to move and set all three exposure values. I have thought of a number of ways to further refine and implement this. For instance, the joy stick I diagrammed could have a button at each point of the triangle. You could press one, or two of those buttons to lock in a value for ISO, shutter speed, or F stop after moving the joystick... leaving the other one or two values to change. This would pretty much eliminate the need for the PSAM dial and possibly some other controls and would be really quick in use. Edited November 12, 2013 by AlanG Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted November 12, 2013 Share #120 Posted November 12, 2013 It will be interesting to see how hardware and software shift from now onwards. I find that with the M8, leaving it on base ISO, taking shots as I want (ie setting aprture/shutter speed to create the image I want, and then 'pulling' the ISO/exposure) is perfectly acceptable for many images, although I've not tried direct comparisons. I'm more of a 'try it and see if the result is appropriate' rather than a 'produce technical perfection regardless' photographer. I'm still surprised at the versatility of the M digitals given their minimal controls. I can see what you are getting at Alan (must be the PCL influence;)) and it will be interesting to see if any manufacturer is brave enough to produce a much simplified camera one day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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