Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

[SrMi]

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29 minutes ago, elmars said:

I don‘t know too much of this definitions. But if I expose the same light situation with the same exposure data on the M10 and M10-R and get the same brightness on both pictures, it is an advantage to me that I can recover the highlights of the M10-R more. 

This does not match my tests with M10-P and M10-R. 

[Guest Nowhereman]

50 minutes ago, SrMi said:

This does not match my tests with M10-P and M10-R. 

Neither does it match what the phototonstophotos Photographic Dynamic Range Shadow Improvement Chart shows, in that the shadow improvement for the M10 and M10-P are shows to be better than that for the M10-R:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Leica M10,Leica M10-P,Leica M10-R
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Frog Leaping photobook

Edited May 30, 2021 by Nowhereman

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[Lee S]

11 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Neither does it match what the phototonstophotos Photographic Dynamic Range Shadow Improvement Chart shows, in that the shadow improvement for the M10 and M10-P are shows to be substantially to be better than that for the M10-R:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Leica M10,Leica M10-P,Leica M10-R
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Frog Leaping photobook

Sounds like they just shifted the sensor weighting to be able to pull back a stop in highlights than the shadows. You can do that in camera sensor software. 

[hdmesa]

8 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Neither does it match what the phototonstophotos Photographic Dynamic Range Shadow Improvement Chart shows, in that the shadow improvement for the M10 and M10-P are shows to be substantially to be better than that for the M10-R:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Leica M10,Leica M10-P,Leica M10-R
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Frog Leaping photobook

 

I don't think that chart means what you think it means:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/GeneralTopics/Sensors_&_Raw/Sensor_Analysis_Primer/Photographic_Dynamic_Range_Shadow_Improvement.htm

 

[Guest Nowhereman]

25 minutes ago, Lee S said:

Sounds like they just shifted the sensor weighting to be able to pull back a stop in highlights than the shadows. You can do that in camera sensor software. 

That's what I think: that while the overall dynamic range for the M10 and M10-R are essentially the same (quite an achievement for the M10-R's smaller, more densely-packed photo-sites), the M10 allocates a large portion of the dynamic range than shadows than to highlights, while the M10-R allocates somewhat more to the highlights than the M10 does. This is probably the reason that many users feel that the M10-R handles highlights better, with less need to underexpose to protect the highlights.
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Frog Leaping photobook

Edited May 30, 2021 by Nowhereman

[M11 for me]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Nowhereman:

overall dynamic range for the M10 and M10 are essentially the same

Oh, I hope so. 

[hdmesa]

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17 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

That's what I think: that while the overall dynamic range for the M10 and M10 are essentially the same (quite an achievement for the M10-R's smaller, more densely-packed photo-sites), the M10 allocates a large portion of the dynamic range than shadows than to highlights, while the M10-R allocates somewhat more to the highlights than the M10 does. This is probably the reason that many users feel that the M10-R handles highlights better, with less need to underexpose to protect the highlights.
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Frog Leaping photobook

When I had the M10-P,  it felt like Leica was trying too hard to hold onto the look of the M9 files. The M10-R files feel like they have finally moved on from the M9 and embraced the look of the medium format S3 files from which the M10-R sensor is cut down.

If the M10-P and M10-R essentially have the same dynamic range, then the M10-P is a shining example of how to make that range less accessible via both metering and in-camera RAW processing. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by hdmesa

[andyturk]

On 4/16/2021 at 11:23 AM, andyturk said:

Oh! I forgot about the LED frame lines. They don't come on until the camera is awake. Personally, I much preferred the old naturally illuminated frame lines of earlier Ms.

9. Naturally illuminated frame lines like the M9, M8, ...

Gonna add another to my previous wishlist:

10. Ditch CMOS and go back to CCD (like the M8/M9).

CMOS sensor technology won because it enables live viewing and video. CCD sensors had something special for stills, but the market was more interested in modern technological features. Personally, I don't take videos and I rarely use live view.

[martinot]

1. Double SD cards.

2. IBIS.

3. Better EVF

4. Better OVF (with diopter adjustment)

5. Tilting/articulating screen.

6. Higher battery capacity.

7. Red frame lines instead of white (or user selectable)

8. Faster operation and better responsiveness (especially off->shot latency).

Higher resolution? I take it, but I also really do not care for it either (I am fine with 24MP).

Edited May 30, 2021 by martinot

[Guest]

Big battery like the m240/262 ,all the rest is total bulls shit for prancing prima donna ponces.

[jdlaing]

80 megapixels

Built in grip

Non removable baseplate with battery/card door

IBIS

Tilt Screen

Bubble Level

EVF

Rangefinder mechanism

Adjustable diopter

Red, blue, green and pink framelines

SSWF wave filter to remove dust

GPS

Built in half case

Ala Carte options

If it doesn’t have all these things I’m not buying it and it will be a dog.

[jdlaing]

Oh.......

And it needs to be under $3,000.00

[Herr Barnack]

17 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Oh.......

And it needs to be under $30,000.00

With the features you demand, you will need to add another zero next to the 3.  😳

Edited June 2, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[martinot]

On 6/2/2021 at 4:31 AM, jdlaing said:

Ala Carte options

Good point. I actually miss the old a la carte options that Leica used to have. Would love to see them back!

[Martin B]

On 5/30/2021 at 3:37 PM, andyturk said:

Gonna add another to my previous wishlist:

10. Ditch CMOS and go back to CCD (like the M8/M9).

CMOS sensor technology won because it enables live viewing and video. CCD sensors had something special for stills, but the market was more interested in modern technological features. Personally, I don't take videos and I rarely use live view.

Check out this recently published blog which compares both - Leica CCD and CMOS sensors. 

http://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2021/06/ccd-vs-cmos-sensor-leica-m-typ-240-vs.html

[Herr Barnack]

Ditch the movie mode. 

I want a surgical scalpel, not a Swiss Army knife.

[Photoworks]

On 5/30/2021 at 9:37 PM, andyturk said:

Gonna add another to my previous wishlist:

10. Ditch CMOS and go back to CCD (like the M8/M9).

CMOS sensor technology won because it enables live viewing and video. CCD sensors had something special for stills, but the market was more interested in modern technological features. Personally, I don't take videos and I rarely use live view.

How can limiting Dynamic range true CCD sensor be progress ?

you can still buy an M9, but WHY? Kodak and Imacon are already history.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Martin B said:

Check out this recently published blog which compares both - Leica CCD and CMOS sensors. 

http://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2021/06/ccd-vs-cmos-sensor-leica-m-typ-240-vs.html

The blog links David Farkas' originally published Red Dot Forum articles from 6 years ago, which have been widely discussed in the interim.

http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/02/the-great-debate-ccd-vs-cmos-part-1/

Jeff

[M11 for me]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Martin B:

Check out this recently published blog which compares both - Leica CCD and CMOS sensors. 

http://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2021/06/ccd-vs-cmos-sensor-leica-m-typ-240-vs.html

So as we learn there is no CCD look. We hope that there is at least the Leica look. I fear that this one is a myth as well. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Herr Barnack]

On 5/21/2021 at 2:49 PM, ivohula said:

If it has IBIS, perfect microlens array in front of sensor and an EVF, my deposit is on its way.

It is time to split the M line into 2 streams, one with evf and one with rangefinder. Keep the body size the same. The evf is much cheaper to produce and should be reflected in the lower  MSRP. Sales should decide future path of M line. 

Do not need video, more pixels, autofocus or higher frame rates. Need more sharper files more often without bulk. To me, the M line is all about small weight and size and outstanding file quality. To get the best files most often, it is time for ibis and evf.

Leica could call it the MIBISEVF (pronounced "Mib-is-eve-eff").

That's a lot of text to engrave on a small front plate though, so they would need to shorten it to MF.

Given Leica's stellar engineering expertise, I have no doubt that it will be a MF of a camera. 😎

Edited June 6, 2021 by Herr Barnack