Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

[bags27]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

The two "most iconic" (it's acceptable usage, but it grates) photographers of the twentieth century were of course Adams and Cartier-Bresson. The latter stands for the decisive moment in 35mm street photography; the former for carefully posed and purposefully developed large format landscapes. And yet Adams's most famous photograph, Moonrise, Hernandez, was the ultimate decisive moment shot: suddenly stopping his truck, jumping on top, and guesstimating exposure. But then once back in the darkroom, endless manipulation and versions.

[evikne]

1 hour ago, John Ricard said:

Let's imagine you're using an M10 Monochrom and you're photographing something simple like a birthday party for a child.  You photograph 10 shots of the various faces singing.  Then you shoot the kid blowing out the candles.  Suddenly his Mom hands him a surprise gift - you might not be able to take that one single image because the previous shots may have filled your buffer.  So much for the decisive moment.  I defy you to give me one reason why a Leica M10 Monochrom shouldn't have as large a buffer as the M10, or larger even.  Is the small buffer desirable so guys like you can say, "My camera only shoots 5 pictures and I'm still able to get all the pictures I need".

A camera that can't take a picture when I want it to is useless.  #RealTalk

I  have photographed many birthday partys with my M10 and never missed anything important. And one picture in each situation is usually sufficient.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited October 25, 2021 by evikne

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[ianman]

49 minutes ago, John Ricard said:

 I'm saying that the M should be able to photograph a child's birthday party and you're telling me it's the wrong tool for that job.

Please do not misunderstand. I'm not telling you (it's not my place to "tell" you anything) that it's the wrong tool for shooting a child's birthday party. What I am saying is, from what I have read in your posts, that it simply does not seem to suit your needs as a photographer, hence my suggestion of maybe trying a different system that suits faster shooting. Please note too that I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the way you work.

[ianman]

54 minutes ago, Yarosuav said:

These comments are hilarious… Let people use their cameras any way they want. If someone wants to use it in high-speed continuous  shooting, why do you see a problem with that (and it’s Leica who put that mode in the camera in the first place…). 

What is hilarious is people who get all hot under the collar without understanding the post that gets them so infuriated. Who said John can't use his camera as he wishes? Obviously he is trying and obvisously the camera deosn't meet his needs. Hence a suggestion of trying a camera that does meet his needs, there are penty of great choices. So, why do YOU see a problem with that?

Moreover, I don't know why you go on to gabble about the "decisive moment" when quoting my post. I've never mentioned the term and if I did it would certainly be along the same lines as yours.

Edited October 25, 2021 by ianman

[John Ricard]

29 minutes ago, evikne said:

I  have photographed many birthday partys with my M10 and never missed anything important. And one picture in each situation is usually sufficient.

 

I shoot differently.  I would want at least one strong image of every child at the party and for any particular moments that happen -blowing out the candles, hitting a piñata, playing a game, etc. I'd want multiple angles.  And in a time where several cameras can shoot more than 10 fps, it's hard to understand why a M10 Monochrom can't have a buffer as large as an M10.

But I suppose the buffer is adequate if your shooting style is to go to a party, pull out your camera and take ONE photograph...

Edited October 25, 2021 by John Ricard

[charlesphoto99]

The problem with the whole "maybe you should use something else' type of comment is that it comes off as the pinnacle of mansplaining.

You really don't think they haven't thought of that themselves? 

[T25UFO]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

There is a simple answer to the buffer issue . . . my buffer stops working at 36 photos!

[evikne]

18 minutes ago, John Ricard said:

I shoot differently.  I would want at least one strong image of every child at the party and for any particular moments that happen -blowing out the candles, hitting a piñata, playing a game, etc.

I actually took one shot of each child hitting the piñata …

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[adan]

50 minutes ago, evikne said:

I  have photographed many birthday partys with my M10 and never missed anything important. And one picture in each situation is usually sufficient.

In fairness, John Ricard is talking about the M10 Monochrom. Read his post carefully.

Are you of the opinion that anything with "M10" in the name performs identically? Regardless of how many pixels it has to capture and process? And how the capture and processing works (color or B&W)?

[adan]

2 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

It's a subliminal button, programmable in any function, just think hard enough ( not after midnight ...), to obtain required function.

It's just the Think Leica M so many people dreamed about ( this add may be right ) 🙃.

Ahh yes, the preferred engineering technique of so many little boys who never grow up.

"Clap you hands three times and say, 'I DO believe in fairies! I do, I DO!' "

[evikne]

20 minutes ago, adan said:

In fairness, John Ricard is talking about the M10 Monochrom. Read his post carefully.

Are you of the opinion that anything with "M10" in the name performs identically? Regardless of how many pixels it has to capture and process? And how the capture and processing works (color or B&W)?

I don't know how many pictures the M10 Monochrom can handle before it has to "rest", but I'm sure I should be able to photograph a birthday party with it. In one way or another. 

I adapt to the camera and do not expect it to adapt to me.

Edited October 25, 2021 by evikne

[strohscw]

As far as I know, all M10s (Mono, P, R, ..) have the same size buffer, 2GB. Depending on the number of pixels of the sensor, this is enough for more or less pictures, 16 with 24 MPx or 10 with 40 MPx.

Edited October 25, 2021 by strohscw

[ianman]

34 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

The problem with the whole "maybe you should use something else' type of comment is that it comes off as the pinnacle of mansplaining.

You really don't think they haven't thought of that themselves? 

You can of course choose to distort any comment, opinions or suggestions anyway that suits you. What I don't understand is why people so obstinately and knowingly choose to work with tools that don't do the job as required. In this case the user knows full well that the camera can't keep up with his style of shooting, but continues to use it anyway. Why?? Now the answer to that question may be as you so nicely put it "pinnacle of mansplaining".

I'm often reminded on this forum of the first scene of Annie Hall in which two ladies at a holiday resort are discussing their meal. The first lady says to her friend "the food is awful here" to which the other replies "yeah, and the portions are so small".

[Erato]

Leica M10 MONOCHROM is sufficient and more than enough to handle a joyful moment scene like a birthday party even the buffer is limited.
All the people from 1930 to 1970 never missed their precious moments while they did not owned a large buffer digital camera with them.
The more buffer, the better. I agreed. 
But if your shooting style is close to or exceeds 25 frames per second, perhaps you should consider a video cam or so.
Please refer to Marta’s Birthday Party(URL shared below). It is living proof indicated that Leica is good enough for such criteria and scenarios mentioned above:

https://www.dsvisuals.com/en/works/exclusive-events-portfolio/photographer-birthday-party-event-milan-marta/

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Erato

[Yarosuav]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

What is hilarious is people who get all hot under the collar without understanding the post that gets them so infuriated. Who said John can't use his camera as he wishes? Obviously he is trying and obvisously the camera deosn't meet his needs. Hence a suggestion of trying a camera that does meet his needs, there are penty of great choices. So, why do YOU see a problem with that?

Moreover, I don't know why you go on to gabble about the "decisive moment" when quoting my post. I've never mentioned the term and if I did it would certainly be along the same lines as yours.

You’re right, I’m sorry, I realized meant to reply to a different post that was just above yours I believe. Plus my post, now that I read it, sounds more harsh than I intended it too… So my apologies. 

I do get somewhat worked up (for no good reason, I know) over occasional posts by the Leica Police, who try to tell other people what for, and how, an M camera should be used.  

[John Ricard]

1 hour ago, adan said:

Are you of the opinion that anything with "M10" in the name performs identically? Regardless of how many pixels it has to capture and process? And how the capture and processing works (color or B&W)?

What irks me is Leica allowing themselves to step backward with regards to the buffer.  Take Apple for example, you can always assume that any improvement in an iPhone 10, is included in the 11.  So if Apple is going on about an OLED screen in the 11, you don't have to go and make sure that it has say, as good a camera as the 10.  That isn't the case with Leica.  They made the M240 with an inadequate (for me) buffer.

Then the M-P 240 with an adequate buffer.

Next came the M262 which used the original M240 buffer.

The same pattern happened with the M10.  Good buffer on M10, but inadequate buffer on the M10r and M10 Monochrom.  

So in a sense, I do expect every camera labeled M10 to perform identically.  Just like I expect a certain level of quality from anything carrying the name, "Leica".

 

[charlesphoto99]

This thread is boarding on ridiculous if it isn't already - are people seriously arguing about who can shoot the most pictures at a child's birthday party with their $10k camera body? 

 

At the end of the day, M bodies, considering their price and supposed longevity, really should have a better buffer and instant wake up times. But a children's birthday party??? 

 

@evikne Good thing your M10 was up to the task of photographing each child's turn at the piñata (??) @John Ricard Would you really photograph a child's birthday party with a Monochrom? What about all the colors usually associated with an event like that? 

[John Ricard]

1 hour ago, evikne said:

I don't know how many pictures the M10 Monochrom can handle before it has to "rest", but I'm sure I should be able to photograph a birthday party with it. In one way or another. 

I adapt to the camera and do not expect it to adapt to me.

You get 10 shots before you hit the buffer on the M10 Monochrom. These 10 shots will be blasted off quickly at low ISO and much slower at high ISO.  (Never heard of any other camera doing that except my other Leica M cameras).  And it is my belief that you should not have to adapt to fit the camera.  The camera should work for you, not the other way around.  Just like you expect every car to drive at 60mph, have a decent sized gas tank, have seats that recline, etc....  You should expect that any modern digital camera can shoot at least 30-40 shots at pretty much whatever speed you'd like to shoot them.

[John Ricard]

57 minutes ago, Erato said:

Please refer to Marta’s Birthday Party(URL shared below). It is living proof indicated that Leica is good enough for such criteria and scenarios mentioned above:

https://www.dsvisuals.com/en/works/exclusive-events-portfolio/photographer-birthday-party-event-milan-marta/

 

Those are some truly killer images.  Great moments captured and really nice processing.  I struggle with getting my M10 files to look as nice as my Z6 files, at times.  Might have to hire you for my daughter's next birthday party

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[ianman]

11 minutes ago, Yarosuav said:

the Leica Police, who try to tell other people what for, and how, an M camera should be used.  

I hope I am not one of those people, I would think users should know their limitations and those of their tools.

Although an MP is my main camera, I use different cameras and brands depending on the need.

And I really appreciate your apology (it's a rare thing around here), although it wasn't necessary. Misunderstandings happen often and too easily on internet discussions.