Is the SL2-S the perfect hybrid camera? To me, the answer is...

[Steven]

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...It might.

Prologue: For me, it might be the perfect hybrid. At least this is what I am trying to figure out. I have tried dozens of cameras from all brands. While I fell in love with Leica about a year ago and have been using since the Q2 and M10P/R, it was far from a good hybrid solution. I do 50% photos/videos, and I have high expectations for both. As many of you may know already, the best hybrid for me lately, after trying the R5, the A7RIV, the SL2, and many others, has been the A7SIII: superb videos, and superb photos. Extremely versatile, and a good selection of lenses + the possibility to adapt M lenses with good results on the new BSI sensor. But it's not Leica. It feels soulless, and uninspiring. While the photos are great, they are not magic. 

Then came the SL2-S. I tried it on day one in the store side by side with my A7SIII, came back home, saw the photos, they looked the same, and I was disappointed. I decided to stick with the Sony.... until one hour later I couldn't stop thinking about the SL2-S and I went back to buy it. I took a leap of faith. Now, I will try it for 4 weeks without touching my Sony, to see if it can not only replace it, but become my new go to camera. I have been on the search for the perfect hybrid camera for years, without success.

Introduction - the lens before the body: The perfect hybrid for me is the camera that not only gives me excellent stills and videos, but also the one that can be paired with one lens good enough that I never need to buy another one in my life. 35mm being my focal length, Sony could not match this criteria. The sigma 35 1.2 is a fine lens, but too big and not that perfect. For the SL2, it seems like the 35 SL APO is a serious contender of "best 35 of ever made in history of photography", so one point for Leica here. That being said, the first part of this "first impressions" will focus on manual lenses since ive only played around with my SL2S with M lenses only so far. Here is part 1 of my first impression: 

Build Quality: Not much to say here, because there's no competition between Sony and Leica. Next to the SL2S, the A7SIII feel like a toy, and not even a premium toy. A toy like the ones you get in a happy meal. The SL2S is a TANK! Just like my M, it feels like im carrying a undestroybale jewel. It is a joy to hold. I might still be deep in the honeymoon, but I seriously want to sleep with it. I want to wake up in the night just to touch it. 

Ergonomy: Same here, no competition. Im new to the SL so that might be nothing new to you, but the SL is perfect. The place of the buttons is ideal, the shortcuts are exactly what I need. Nothing more nothing less. The only complaint I have is that you cannot remap to anything you want. I wish I could have a button to switch between APCS and 35mm mode in movies but I cant. Thats a real pity. 

Ease of use and Interface: I feel reborn. Straight to the point, clean, simple, intuitive. A big change from Sony's horrible and cluttered menus. 

Look: No competition, Lecia wins again. 

Overall, because of the Build quality, the ergonomics and the interface, I want to pick up my camera all the time. It's inspiring. It feels like tradition of photography. 

Image Quality: It's gorgeous. It's superior to my previous favourite camera, the Q2. The colours looks so beautiful, better than my M10R and my Q2. The AWB is the most surprising part, it's always spot on, better than my M by far. The M lenses ive tried look perfect, even better than the M. The addition of ibis, that incredible EVF and focus peaking makes me miss much less photos, they are all sharp and in focus to the point that except for when a small size is needed, I don't see myself ever wanting to pick up my M over my SL right now. About the EVF, it has less dots than the A7SIII, but for some reasons it looks more beautiful, with colours that are more true to life. The image is just STELLAR! So so happy with it. 

Low light: it's something important to me. if it is going to be my perfect hybrid, it needs to be versatile. The Q, for example, I can barely use it at night. It just doesn't work for me. The SL2S seem to be an incredible performer. I might even dare to say its better than the A7SIII. Sure, there is more noise at 50k ISO than on the sony, but the grain is fine. The colours aren't muted and desaturated, and the image doesn't look like it suffered heavy nose reduction by a computer like the sony. Yes, the sony sees in the dark, but the Leica is more organic, more like a film photo. Leica wins, surprisingly. 

Video: at first I didn't like it, and that's because its not good out of the box. But once I switch it to C4K, 10 bit 422, HLG profile, I think it beats the Sony. I need more testing, but I was shocked by the first results. Paired with an M lens, the image is INCREDIBLE. Leica colours in video. And just like stills, they are so easy and enjoyable to manipulate in post. Also, the in body stabilisation is uncomparable to sony. its a class above. I have tried low light video at 12,500 ISO and it was as clean as my sony, with better colours. So first results are amazing. 

The things I don't like: No tilt screen, although I don't know for sure that I would sacrifice that against build quality and weatherproofing, and the fact that I cant remap the shortcut button to anything I want. 

I probably missed a lot of things, but the point is that as far as Manual Focus use is concerned, the SL2S has destroyed my Sony A7SIII. It's better at everything. I feel freed. But.....

There will be a second part to my testing: AF lenses. Unfortunately, this is where I fear that the Sony might take the advantage again, with its stellar AF performance. Im picking up the 35 SL APO  this week. I will test and keep you posted. 

Feel free to ask me if you have any question. 

Cheers,

Steve 

[Steven]

How could I forget about the shutter sound.... it's like a small orgasm every time I click it. 

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[ajmarton1]

I do not shoot any video but for manual cameras - I love the Leica RF systems.   My M10P and M10 Monochrom are fantastic.  I bought the Q2 Monochrom but have decided to sell it as it is overshadowed by the M10M.  As for a DSLR solution, I was unhappy with the SL despite all the good glass and I had them all.  I jumped to the Sony ar7IV and love the compactness, AF tracking and eye-AF is nothing short of amazing.  But more recently I switched to the Canon R5 and that appears to be the perfect solution for me.  Still putting it through the paces - but the form factor, sharpness, smoothness of color and tone are amazing and continue to impress me.  It does not have the industrial design or build quality of the Leica (not many cameras do) but from a functionality point I view, I am impressed with the R5.  

Edited December 13, 2020 by ajmarton1

[Aaron Daniel]

 Beautifully written, Steven! Thorough, concise and needed around this new model. Especially so on your points about video – with less than adequate information out there in real-world applications around the video settings, your first impressions are very promising! Especially comparing it to the popular A7Siii. I used to be in the Sony system, and I agree that my SL2 (albeit not SL2-S) has outstanding IBIS compared to Sony. Happy to see that it is kept in the SL2-S.

One question I have is in regards to the SL2-S external output capabilities. Would you by chance have any insight on how it currently pairs with the Atomos Ninja V? Does the firmware match the SL2 so much that it is already recognized? I don't have high hopes, but worth a shot asking! Nevertheless, I assume your impressions around video quality will be all the same 🤞

Edited December 13, 2020 by Aaron Daniel

[Steven]

Thank you Aaron. 

I actually have a Ninja V laying around. I will charge it up and plug it in tomorrow. Will let you know ! 

[Steven]

24 minutes ago, ajmarton1 said:

I do not shoot any video but for manual cameras - I love the Leica RF systems.   My M10P and M10 Monochrom are fantastic.  I bought the Q2 Monochrom but have decided to sell it as it is overshadowed by the M10M.  As for a DSLR solution, I was unhappy with the SL despite all the good glass and I had them all.  I jumped to the Sony ar7IV and love the compactness, AF tracking and eye-AF is nothing short of amazing.  But more recently I switched to the Canon R5 and that appears to be the perfect solution for me.  Still putting it through the paces - but the form factor, sharpness, smoothness of color and tone are amazing and continue to impress me.  It does not have the industrial design or build quality of the Leica (not many cameras do) but from a functionality point I view, I am impressed with the R5.  

I thought the R5 was excellent for photos, not so good for video. I sold mine after 2 months of use. If photo is what you care for though, its one of the best camera ive tried. 

[la1402]

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Thank you Steven - that matches my first view. AWB, Colours, low light performance are wonderful. Manual focussing with that EVF and IBIS is a dream. The shuttersound indeed is suuper nice. I struggle a bit with the EVF brightness outdoors - seems it  requires manual adjustement through the menu.

Edited December 13, 2020 by la1402

[gotium]

Yeah, what do ya think about ease of focusing the M-mount lenses, compared with using a rangefinder? Assume that you have to open up the aperture and zoom in to see clearly, which is a fiddle. Fine for stills, but for photos of people?

Cameras like the Q are kind enough to auto-adjust your aperture for you when you focus manually (unlike sony, for example).

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb la1402:

....I struggle a bit with the EVF brightness outdoors - seems it  requires manual adjustement through the menu.

One can set up a second profile for outdoors with a brighter EVF setting.

[jonnyboy]

I am quite excited that Leica is stepping into the filmmaking realm.
I have been an avid Sony user for my video production and I was looking to get my hands on the Sony A7SIII in the next few months. Usually, I'm not an early buyer I like the hype to settle down. I didn't see this coming from Leica and now with the SL2-S I'm not entirely sure I would go to Sony again for video. 
Great insight Steven, considering you already own an A7S III it would be great to see some comparison. Sony is a beast in low light - is Leica really up to that standards?

[Chaemono]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb jonnyboy:

...A7S III it would be great to see some comparison. Sony is a beast in low light - is Leica really up to that standards?

12 MPx vs. 24 MPx standards. I think, I’ll post some low light comparison then α7R IV vs. SL2S. Have done so vs. the SL2 before starting at #24 here: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303396-leica-sl2-dynamic-range/page/2/#comments 😂

[beewee]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Steven.

I’m wondering if you can elaborate on which M-lenses you’ve tested on the SL2-S and how they perform in terms of corner sharpness wide-open and stopped down.

I have the M10 and many of the modern M-lenses are sharp corner to corner. I’m wondering if that’s the case with the new BSI sensor on the SL2-S.

Based on the BSI sensor structure, although Leica doesn’t mention it in their press release, it should have better off-axis response so I would imagine this would also help when using M-lenses in terms of maintaining corner sharpness as compared to the non-BSI sensor in the SL2.  

[Big John]

Why would anyone buy the SL2 now this model is out....?   Is the only reason to buy SL2 is that you want hi res?

Seems like the SL2S is the new flagship and the SL2 is the ‘R’ version?

[Slender]

Well, similar output when downscaled to 24mp up to 12500 iso OR with still 20mp to spare in APS-C  - want to try it in street photography with TL lenses like the 18 f2.8 - and an extra fps with AF-C is hardly what I called outclassed. If the AF and video keep getting updated the same, then the SL2 remains the flagship for stills -with video suceptible to more alliasing- . If not then it will be an outrageously short lived one. 🙄

[Donzo98]

2 hours ago, Big John said:

Why would anyone buy the SL2 now this model is out....?   Is the only reason to buy SL2 is that you want hi res?

Seems like the SL2S is the new flagship and the SL2 is the ‘R’ version?

You make the difference between 47mp and 24mp sound like it's meaningless. The ability to print super big, and crop at will is huge to many. The SL glass is the best... and deserves the highest resolution sensor.

The SL2 remains the flagship for sure... unless you need super high ISO performance (and better video).

Edited December 15, 2020 by Donzo98

[Photoworks]

NO word on ProResRaw!

what!?! you guys are not missing it! the S5 has it

[Steven]

On 12/14/2020 at 12:55 AM, gotium said:

what do ya think about ease of focusing the M-mount lenses, compared with using a rangefinder?

It's day and night. Personally, and that was already true after using the A7SIII with my M lenses, after trying to focus with and evf it's been hard to go back to RF. I only do RF now when I want to take it easy, for chilled strolls. But the EVF makes it easier to compose and see your final image. You can focus on a subject that's off center while the RF patch is in the center. It saves you a second that is crucial in composition in my experience. 

[Steven]

14 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

I am quite excited that Leica is stepping into the filmmaking realm.
I have been an avid Sony user for my video production and I was looking to get my hands on the Sony A7SIII in the next few months. Usually, I'm not an early buyer I like the hype to settle down. I didn't see this coming from Leica and now with the SL2-S I'm not entirely sure I would go to Sony again for video. 
Great insight Steven, considering you already own an A7S III it would be great to see some comparison. Sony is a beast in low light - is Leica really up to that standards?

My first video test for low light have been quite surprising. While the A7SIII can see in the dark and produce a clean image with almost no light at 25K, you can feel there's a lot of computing that goes in it. Colours start getting desaturated and everything becomes very yellowfins/orangish. The image also looks TOO soft, too denoised. While its a fantastic versatility to have, I am more impressed with the early results of the SL2-S. I have only pushed it to 12500 so far but the results are great. No massive color loss, and no intense desoising. Just a slight, organic grain which I like. Of course, this is no scientific, side by side comparison. Just my first "real wolrd" impression. But I will test a lot more this week. Maybe tonight even. 

[Steven]

10 hours ago, beewee said:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Steven.

I’m wondering if you can elaborate on which M-lenses you’ve tested on the SL2-S and how they perform in terms of corner sharpness wide-open and stopped down.

I have the M10 and many of the modern M-lenses are sharp corner to corner. I’m wondering if that’s the case with the new BSI sensor on the SL2-S.

Based on the BSI sensor structure, although Leica doesn’t mention it in their press release, it should have better off-axis response so I would imagine this would also help when using M-lenses in terms of maintaining corner sharpness as compared to the non-BSI sensor in the SL2.  

28, 35 (pre Fle), 50, all summilux. They work perfect. They work the same or better than on my M10R. There is nothing to complain about. The SL2-S produces a nicer image than my M10R no contest (in my eye) with the M lenses. The SL2S seem to produce the best images I have ever gotten on a Leica (Q2 aside, but the Q2 is a different style of imagery). The SL2S might the best stills camera I've ever owned, and ive owned all of them, including the latest Canon R5

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[Steven]

8 hours ago, Slender said:

Well, similar output when downscaled to 24mp up to 12500 iso OR with still 20mp to spare in APS-C  - want to try it in street photography with TL lenses like the 18 f2.8 - and an extra fps with AF-C is hardly what I called outclassed. If the AF and video keep getting updated the same, then the SL2 remains the flagship for stills -with video suceptible to more alliasing- . If not then it will be an outrageously short lived one. 🙄

Ah! you just bought your SL2 recently if I recall. Sorry that a new model came out, I imagine it must be annoying. You're the member of this forum who convinced me to take a leap of faith with the SL system. Although im still in honeymoon phase, I cant thank you enough. I might have found my new favourite camera.