SL2S FW6.0

[frame-it]

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3 hours ago, trickness said:

I use the joystick to get critical focus on my M glass every single time I use the camera. Hope this is incorrect. Just incredibly stupid

haha maybe the SL3 wont have a joystick and they're "preparing" us for the change

 

[John Smith]

2 hours ago, Luke_Miller said:

It is even worse. I have the Leica M to L adapter for my M glass and the Metabones F to L adapter for my Nikon manual focus lenses.  After the 6.0 update I configured my SL2 for thumbwheel magnification.  Works fine with my M lenses, but with the Metabones adapter the Joystick magnification still works, but not the thumbwheel magnification. In order to have a consistent configuration for when I am using my manual focus lenses, I have to assign a FN button to magnification since that is the only method that works with both adapters.

I updated my two SLs and actually prefer the thumbwheel. It makes sense, too, because you change the amount of magnification by using the thumbwheeI. It'll just take a small amount of time before the muscle memory kicks in.

I don't see where Leica is responsible for updating its firmware to work hand-in-hand with third-party adapters. 

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[trickness]

54 minutes ago, John Smith said:

I updated my two SLs and actually prefer the thumbwheel. It makes sense, too, because you change the amount of magnification by using the thumbwheeI. It'll just take a small amount of time before the muscle memory kicks in.

I don't see where Leica is responsible for updating its firmware to work hand-in-hand with third-party adapters. 

If you use the crosshairs for focus, you use the joystick to navigate to the exact spot you want to focus on, then just press the same joystick button to zoom in (fantastic with fast lenses). Doing it on the wheel means using two different locations, less intuitive, more fiddly, more camera shake, and requires those of us who’ve been using the joystick to magnify since the SL601 to throw away our muscle memory.
 

Can’t think why anyone who ever used this camera with M glass would consider this function being removed as an “improvement”.

[Chris Nebard]

7 minutes ago, trickness said:

If you use the crosshairs for focus, you use the joystick to navigate to the exact spot you want to focus on, then just press the same joystick button to zoom in (fantastic with fast lenses). Doing it on the wheel means using two different locations, less intuitive, more fiddly, more camera shake, and requires those of us who’ve been using the joystick to magnify since the SL601 to throw away our muscle memory.
 

Can’t think why anyone who ever used this camera with M glass would consider this function being removed as an “improvement”.

Exactly. 

[IP54]

This joystick IS the SL2, Leica give us back our thumb!

Edited December 8, 2023 by IP54

[John Smith]

7 minutes ago, trickness said:

If you use the crosshairs for focus, you use the joystick to navigate to the exact spot you want to focus on, then just press the same joystick button to zoom in (fantastic with fast lenses). Doing it on the wheel means using two different locations, less intuitive, more fiddly, more camera shake, and requires those of us who’ve been using the joystick to magnify since the SL601 to throw away our muscle memory.
 

Can’t think why anyone who ever used this camera with M glass would consider this function being removed as an “improvement”.

Why would you use the crosshairs for focus with manual lenses? You can navigate to the "exact spot you want to focus on" using the magnification. I disagree that the wheel is less intuitive. You ought to give it a couple of weeks before bashing Leica for what seems to be a prudent change. 

[frogfisher]

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Guess, we are all happy about the assignable Thumbwheel. At the same, many of us are extremely unhappy about the loss of the joystick magnification. Why not have both functions? Also, I believe it’s a bug and Leica will fix it very soon

[trickness]

1 hour ago, John Smith said:

Why would you use the crosshairs for focus with manual lenses? You can navigate to the "exact spot you want to focus on" using the magnification. I disagree that the wheel is less intuitive. You ought to give it a couple of weeks before bashing Leica for what seems to be a prudent change. 

Its is the opposite of a "prudent change" to REMOVE a basic method of focusing that has been there since the camera launch and requiring users who haven't asked for a change to use a new methodology. "Prudent" wold have been offering this alternate method as an option, instead of removing functionality. 

Especially using fast lenses, with extremely shallow depth of field, I often pick a specific area in the frame -zoom into the eye, or eyelashes, and then focus & shoot. I often frame a shot and the focus area is in a corner of the frame - moving the crosshairs there, then pressing for critical focus is simple, fast and from a tactile standpoint, less complex than using the joystick AND a wheel to accomplish the same thing. Economy of movement IS a thing.

I get it, you don't use it this way, you like the new way, but that doesn't mean the concerns of those of us who have done it this way for 5 years or so are irrelevant or "bashing". 

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, John Smith said:

...You can navigate to the "exact spot you want to focus on" using the magnification...

What on Earth are you talking about? Are you saying to zoom in then pan around until you find the spot you want to focus on? That's insanity for high magnification zoom.

[John Smith]

36 minutes ago, trickness said:

Its is the opposite of a "prudent change" to REMOVE a basic method of focusing that has been there since the camera launch and requiring users who haven't asked for a change to use a new methodology. "Prudent" wold have been offering this alternate method as an option, instead of removing functionality. 

Especially using fast lenses, with extremely shallow depth of field, I often pick a specific area in the frame -zoom into the eye, or eyelashes, and then focus & shoot. I often frame a shot and the focus area is in a corner of the frame - moving the crosshairs there, then pressing for critical focus is simple, fast and from a tactile standpoint, less complex than using the joystick AND a wheel to accomplish the same thing. Economy of movement IS a thing.

I get it, you don't use it this way, you like the new way, but that doesn't mean the concerns of those of us who have done it this way for 5 years or so are irrelevant or "bashing". 

 

18 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

What on Earth are you talking about? Are you saying to zoom in then pan around until you find the spot you want to focus on? That's insanity for high magnification zoom.

Yeah, yeah, it's the end of the world and Leica, again, has no clue as to what it's doing. Time for me to spend my time elsewhere. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by John Smith

[hdmesa]

7 minutes ago, John Smith said:

 

Sheesh. This probably a good time to leave the forum for a few months. 

Why? No one is bashing you personally. I just don't understand your idea that we're supposed to zoom in and then pan around looking for a subject's eyeball at very high magnification. I would feel like the Velma cartoon character that had bad vision and dropped their eyeglasses and was feeling around on the ground trying to find them 🙃

I've off and on owned a GFX since 2017, and I'm very familiar with how pushing the wheel button to magnify works. I simply find pushing the joystick to be a much more elegant solution and one that had kept me considering buying another SL2-S.

[robb]

I use the joystick for starting AF, moving the focus point, and in the menu selection.  I use the front top button for magnification zoom in and out.

I love that you can set up the buttons how it makes sense for you.  Hopefully Leica will give users all the options without deleting them.

Robb

[V23]

8 hours ago, Malabito said:

the above was with a novaflex adapter, indeed when using the leica adapter it doesnt work... i guess i wont be using my leica adapter....

Of cause it is up to you what adapter you will be using or not. It works with my Novoflex LET/LEM as you describe. With Leica M to L adapter, you get additional useful function by pressing upper front Fb and then turning front thumb wheel you get four levels of magnification that is not available with Novoflex adapter, your choice.  

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Why? No one is bashing you personally. I just don't understand your idea that we're supposed to zoom in and then pan around looking for a subject's eyeball at very high magnification. I would feel like the Velma cartoon character that had bad vision and dropped their eyeglasses and was feeling around on the ground trying to find them 🙃

I've off and on owned a GFX since 2017, and I'm very familiar with how pushing the wheel button to magnify works. I simply find pushing the joystick to be a much more elegant solution and one that had kept me considering buying another SL2-S.

on the gfx50 series after a while the thumbwheel gets a bit glitchy with all the pressing

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

on the gfx50 series after a while the thumbwheel gets a bit glitchy with all the pressing

I have always had problems with Fuji's rear wheel (GFX50, GFX100), and many have complained. I never had any issues with rear wheels with any other brand

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

I have always had problems with Fuji's rear wheel (GFX50, GFX100), and many have complained. I never had any issues with rear wheels with any other brand

well, after extreme use in several countries for almost 5 years, its acceptable, but lets see how good the SL2/S quality is

[hoolyproductions]

16 hours ago, RBB said:

This is great! No more accidently switching ASMP

Indeed, or the "SPAM" button as I like to call it

I also had lens firmware updates for all three of my Leica SL lenses. I'm not affected by the joystick/magnify issue as I use the joystick for BBF and a front button to magnify; must be annoying though!

[Chris Nebard]

45 minutes ago, hoolyproductions said:

Indeed, or the "SPAM" button as I like to call it

I also had lens firmware updates for all three of my Leica SL lenses. I'm not affected by the joystick/magnify issue as I use the joystick for BBF and a front button to magnify; must be annoying though!

😆yes, it’s a bit irritating for this old man but I’ll keep it in perspective; the real world has far worse problems.

The thumbwheel and customised buttons are solutions - I already use the wheel if I need to zoom in steps to focus - but, for a camera that I once heard Peter Karbe say is the best to use for M lenses (outside of an M itself), Leica has just removed a brilliant M/F function that is definitely preferable to some. If it’s a conscious decision, and not a cock-up, it’s bewildering why they’ve done it. 
Anyway, I hope they’re listening.  This is certainly a useful thread and I always benefit from others’ thoughts and experiences on the LUF 👍

[Tibidabo]

I'm also hugely disappointed by this and puzzled as to why the feature was removed. I use the SL2 only with adapted lens with the Leica adaptor and the joystick magnification, for me, was ergonomically preferable to other magnification button options. It also frees up FN buttons for other functions. The thumbwheel doesn't feel responsive (a plus point of the joystick magnification) and in some testing sometimes doesn't respond at all. 

Another issue I've found is that the joystick, in mf mode with adapted lens', is not programmable so I'm left with using it for the ponderous moving of the magnification area or AE lock (which I rarely if ever use). Strikes me Leica could allow the user to programme the joystick in MF mode for a number of functions. 

So, not only is the removal of this feature 'unfathomable' for me too, it is also a huge lost opportunity to provide some useful and flexible features. I'm hoping its an oversight or mistake that gets rectified. 

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[insomnia]

So I'm really happy that they fixed the AE-L / AE-F situation (both for AF and for MF lenses). Before this, we didn't really have an AE-L for manual lenses as the Joystick was always Zoom and you couldn't assign any other button.

I agree they should have kept the option to leave it at Zoom for the "muscle memory" problem. I'll just use the dial now, I ended up using it after pushing the Joystick anyway. You could assign the button next to the Joystick for magnification, but it's not as convenient.

By the way, they also fixed that the zoom feature now remembers the last magnification level.

What they didn't fix is when you change a user profile it will not automatically change the display settings (e.g. if one user-profile has peaking and one has not).

With this update I can live 100 %, it's much appreciated and I complained about the AE-L situation to Leica (and here 🙂).