M10 (and M10D) Discontinued [Merged]

[rivi1969]

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1 hour ago, pedaes said:

Clearly Leica's aren't for everyone. No problem with that, there are plenty of other options. For those of us happy with the risks - that should be ok with you too.

”Clearly Leica’s aren’t for everyone”

Don't be arrogant. So Leica is not for me because I don’t want a 5-year life span $6000 camera?

I bought my first Leica maybe 25 years ago, so don't assume if it is for me or not.

[Guest]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Jeff S:

Well, Dr. Kaufmann is #1 in my book, so Stefan is already second hand. 🙄 David has close Leica contacts and doesn’t use the words “officially discontinued” loosely. So unless Stefan makes the announcement, I guess you remain a skeptic. Thanks, but I’ll trust that the information is accurate.  In any event, supplies still exist until gone, as usual.

Jeff

It's not about which announcements Stefan Daniel doesn't make in the interview mentioned, but about which M10 versions he individually lists as still in production.
Still not taking note of the interview? Then any further discussion about it makes little sense.
Product-oriented customers are less likely to be interested in in-house hierarchies.
Mr. M is a specialist in the field entrusted to him and Mr. K. as the main owner ensures that Leica will hopefully exist a long time, therefore both should have more than enough to do.
But as already said, the day of the cessation of production of any M10 will come one day, that's normal progress.
 

Edited August 9, 2020 by mnutzer

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[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, mnutzer said:

It's not about which announcements Stefan Daniel doesn't make in the interview mentioned, but about which M10 versions he individually lists as still in production.
Still not taking note of the interview? Then any further discussion about it makes little sense.
Product-oriented customers are less likely to be interested in in-house hierarchies.
Mr. M is a specialist in the field entrusted to him and Mr. K. as the main owner ensures that Leica will hopefully exist a long time, therefore both should have more than enough to do.
But as already said, the day of the cessation of production of any M10 will come one day, that's normal progress.
 

That interview was published here July 16th, and likely recorded earlier.  The official Leica announcement on the M10 and M10D discontinuation according to David (the silver had already been officially announced) was published on August 1.  That’s enough for me.  Believe what you will; I suppose you could PM Andreas if he’s your benchmark. You raised the hierarchy issue, not I.
 

Frankly, none of this matters to me personally. I own the M10 and have no plans to sell.

Jeff

Edited August 9, 2020 by Jeff S

[mmx_2]

It actually makes a lot of sense that they have dropped M10 and M10-D, now they have the same body, screen and shutter for M10M, M10R and M10-P. Only Sensor is different in the three cameras, so Leica can save money on parts commonality. The M10 and M10-D has different shutter and screens.

[Raid Amin]

I get it; The M10 has been discontinued. The key seems to be to use the camera well so that when/if it cannot be serviced anymore, I will have obtained with it many images. Maybe this justifies the cost?

[Raid Amin]

I heard that the sensor for the M10 has not been produced anymore since 2017. 

[graphlex]

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18 hours ago, mmx_2 said:

It actually makes a lot of sense that they have dropped M10 and M10-D, now they have the same body, screen and shutter for M10M, M10R and M10-P. Only Sensor is different in the three cameras, so Leica can save money on parts commonality. The M10 and M10-D has different shutter and screens.

I believe that the M10-D has the same shutter as the -P.   

[84bravo]

On 8/10/2020 at 4:33 PM, Raid Amin said:

I heard that the sensor for the M10 has not been produced anymore since 2017. 

Really? How do they keep the M10P in production? Isn't it the same sensor?

[Raid Amin]

I could be wrong here, and the M9 sensor was not made since 2017. Sorry about my error.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Raid Amin

[rramesh]

I'm sensing an M roadmap where the body is common and the sensor becomes a swappable component, much like a film canister.

and ..

Leica does offers a trade-up program where the obsolete M10 shutter and LCD can be replaced with the M10-P versions + top plate.

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by rramesh

[graphlex]

Dealers might well revolt, judging from reactions I’ve gotten.

[rramesh]

7 hours ago, 84bravo said:

Really? How do they keep the M10P in production? Isn't it the same sensor?

Leica buys in contracts many parts (sensors, LCD etc.) and like all contracts it would be made in a large enough batch to justify cost savings, and based on an estimated sales projections keeping a percentage for spares. In the case of the M9 the sensor proved faulty and Leica probably ran through the spares quickly. Hence a second corrected batch had to be ordered.

[scott kirkpatrick]

The M10-D has the mechanical parts of an M10-P under the covers and runs the firmware of an M10-P, but I suspect there is a limited supply of the rewind levers, so like all good things, it must come to an end.  I'm happy with mine and will hold onto it.

[AndreasG]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb scott kirkpatrick:

I'm happy with mine and will hold onto it.

You are not alone!

[BKimelb1]

I just traded my M240 for a used M10 and love the camera. The M240 was great too! 

[james.liam]

I sold the M10 way back when I could recoup most of my money, in order to get an M10-P. It is a different enough camera to be worth the swap and 24 MP has become the 'sweet spot' for a lot of photographers. Files on a 40MP camera are a bear and us non-pros just don't need the extra fire-power. Anyway, I really like the Safari....

[mujk]

I'm not sure other digital camera manufacturers are very much better than Leica when it comes to keep spare parts available for discontinued models. I guess all of them can calculate how much it will cost them, compared to what they will gain. And all of them would rather sell the customer a new camera instead.

My guess is that the M10 sensor will be the first component to go out of stock, becuse it is probably the most expensive externally sourced component. But this will not happen until a number of years after the M10-P has been discontinued, unless the sensor manufacturer runs into severe problems before that.

[pedaes]

16 minutes ago, mujk said:

My guess is that the M10 sensor will be the first component to go out of stock

The M10 sensor is exactly the same as that in M10-P, so it will 'run out',  if it does, at the same time as that for the M10-P and its possible successor.

We must stop these fake projections.

Edited August 14, 2020 by pedaes

[dkmoore]

On 8/11/2020 at 7:32 PM, 84bravo said:

Really? How do they keep the M10P in production? Isn't it the same sensor?

They buy a batch of sensors at a time so it is possible. Not all get put into cameras right away. Leica does a fantastic job in my view of keeping their cameras from becoming obsolete. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by dkmoore

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[mujk]

9 hours ago, pedaes said:

The M10 sensor is exactly the same as that in M10-P, so it will 'run out',  if it does, at the same time as that for the M10-P and its possible successor.

We must stop these fake projections.

Exactly what I tried to say. Sorry for not being clear enough.

Leica will keep some stock of M10/M10-P sensors after production of the last model that uses this sensor has gone out of production. They will make a projection of how many will be needed for a number of years. In case demand is bigger, they will order more from the manufacturer, if possible. I understand that this is what happened with the M9 because of the large need for sensor replacement due to sensor cover delamination. So Leica was able to replace sensors for (almost) 10 years after the first M9 was produced, after which the sensor was no longer possible to procure. This is not a projection of what will happen with other Leica sensors, but it shows that most electronic components will no longer be available at some point of time.