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Xtol apparently discontinued

bags27

By bags27
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Tom R

Tom R

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Posted

According to the B & H Website, Kodak's HC-110 and XTol are discontinued. Of course, people living in the US could order "equivalents" formulated by Legacy Pro, from Freestyle Photo, CA. I see that Kodak still manufactures TMax developer (2019 version). This developer, too, has a "generic" equivalent from Legacy Pro. I don't use any of these developers at present, though I've used LegacyPro chemistry recently and it's pretty good. Some claim that it doesn't have the shelf life of the Kodak original(s); but these are available at a greatly reduced cost--compared to the Kodak's formulations anyway. 

As far as Kodak's "place in history ..." I seriously doubt that Kodak cares about "history" because in America, anyway, it's all about pleasing the stockholders who care even less about history.

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bobtodrick

bobtodrick

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We are a Canadian dealer.  What I didn’t realize til lately is that a few years back Kodak sold their chemical and paper manufacturing to a Chinese company.  Film still made by ‘Kodak’.

We were informed a few months ago that Kodak ‘China’ would not be exported product to North America. 

We now deal with https://flicfilm.ca

They manufacture all of their chemicals, ship worldwide and are great to deal with.

What’s amazing is they are based in a town with a population of 300 people!

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JohnnyMartyr

JohnnyMartyr

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There is a lot of inaccurate "information" in this thread.  If you want all the available details, they haven't changed since I wrote the article "Uncertainty Surrounds the Future of Kodak Photo Paper and Chemistry" for Petapixel in May and you can read about it there:

https://petapixel.com/2023/05/08/uncertainty-surrounds-the-future-of-kodak-photo-paper-and-chemistry/

Suffice to say, there are three entities making/selling "Kodak" film products: they are Eastman Kodak (US) who make film, Kodak Alaris (UK) who distribute Kodak film and Sino Promise (CH) who distribute chemicals and paper. 

Those who are making disparaging remarks against "Kodak," don't even appear to understand who they are talking much less their history.

Kodak Alaris were basically forced to sell the paper and chemical division to Sino Promise in 2020.  The problem is that Sino are not communicating their intentions and continued supply chain issues with Eastman, Alaris or the public.  And none of this has changed since last spring.  We are in a holding pattern.  

B&H is the only reputable party claiming that any Kodak branded chemistry has been discontinued.  Adorama, Freestyle, Film Photography Project, Blue Moon, etc are still stating that these products are on back order only.  FFP states that HC110 manufacturing has been paused.  Sino, nor Kodak have made any official statements about XTOL or HC110.

Numerous, if not all Kodak labs in Canada have been forced to discontinue use of Kodak chemistry (communications from Sino are in my article) but US labs have not received definitive communication to my knowledge.    

I would recommend sourcing comparable replacements and not spreading rumors and careless negativity in the meantime.

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adan

adan

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Posted
7 hours ago, JohnnyMartyr said:

Suffice to say, there are three entities making/selling "Kodak" film products: they are Eastman Kodak (US) who make film, Kodak Alaris (UK) who distribute Kodak film and Sino Promise (CH) who distribute chemicals and paper. 

A few years back, most of my Kodak-branded photo chemicals were marked (in the finest of print) Made in Germany. I suspect (insert name) was outsourcing those to Tetenal at that time, before Tetenal's 2019 reorganization. Which was probably the impetus for the move to Sino Promise.

A chemical factory is a chemical factory - give them a formula and they can make it.

But that shift Rochester/Germany/China was an early hint of the problems of globalised supply chains, made even more evident by Covid, and now threatened by geopolitical/economic problems. On which I take no position here except they can be a PITA.

.............................

If worse comes to worst, I have transitioned to good old D-76 over the past few years anyway, so Harman/Ilford ID-11 will be an almost-straight-up replacement (unless that is made "somewhere else" now also). Either formula is also fairly easy to mix from scratch (last time I looked).

I would kinda miss "Kodak-branded" Rapid Fixer - I've always found it to be seriously faster than other claimants (1-2 minutes to "clear," 4 minutes to "done"), as well as cost-effective and easy to find (for the moment).

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Anbaric

Anbaric

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On 8/15/2023 at 7:50 PM, bags27 said:

I stick with Pyrocat and Barry Thorton's two bath, which I mix myself, but apparently Adox XT-3,  which seems impossible to find right now, best approximates Xtol.

US distribution problem? It seems to be readily available in Europe, even Brexit Britain. As well as the easier handling that @hansvons mentions (magic dust binding technology, apparently), there's also the convenience of 1 litre packs and results are supposedly the same as with XTOL (the patent has expired, so the formula can be closely matched).

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bobtodrick

bobtodrick

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On 8/28/2023 at 2:01 PM, JohnnyMartyr said:

T
B&H is the only reputable party claiming that any Kodak branded chemistry has been discontinued.  Adorama, Freestyle, Film Photography Project, Blue Moon, etc are still stating that these products are on back order only.  FFP states that HC110 manufacturing has been paused.  Sino, nor Kodak have made any official statements about XTOL or HC110.

Numerous, if not all Kodak labs in Canada have been forced to discontinue use of Kodak chemistry (communications from Sino are in my article) but US labs have not received definitive communication to my knowledge.    

I would recommend sourcing comparable replacements and not spreading rumors and careless negativity in the meantime.

That unfortunately seems to be a thing in the photo industry.  Again speaking as a dealer.  Nikon on Canon (for example) both have cameras (mostly DSLR's) on their websites we cannot get and their websites say they are on backorder.  Yet our reps tell us don't ever expect them...that they are in fact not going to be made. 

So why not just say so and take them off their websites??

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otto.f

otto.f

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/28/2023 at 10:01 PM, JohnnyMartyr said:

There is a lot of inaccurate "information" in this thread.  If you want all the available details, they haven't changed since I wrote the article "Uncertainty Surrounds the Future of Kodak Photo Paper and Chemistry" for Petapixel in May and you can read about it there:

https://petapixel.com/2023/05/08/uncertainty-surrounds-the-future-of-kodak-photo-paper-and-chemistry/

Suffice to say, there are three entities making/selling "Kodak" film products: they are Eastman Kodak (US) who make film, Kodak Alaris (UK) who distribute Kodak film and Sino Promise (CH) who distribute chemicals and paper. 

Those who are making disparaging remarks against "Kodak," don't even appear to understand who they are talking much less their history.

Kodak Alaris were basically forced to sell the paper and chemical division to Sino Promise in 2020.  The problem is that Sino are not communicating their intentions and continued supply chain issues with Eastman, Alaris or the public.  And none of this has changed since last spring.  We are in a holding pattern.  

B&H is the only reputable party claiming that any Kodak branded chemistry has been discontinued.  Adorama, Freestyle, Film Photography Project, Blue Moon, etc are still stating that these products are on back order only.  FFP states that HC110 manufacturing has been paused.  Sino, nor Kodak have made any official statements about XTOL or HC110.

Numerous, if not all Kodak labs in Canada have been forced to discontinue use of Kodak chemistry (communications from Sino are in my article) but US labs have not received definitive communication to my knowledge.    

I would recommend sourcing comparable replacements and not spreading rumors and careless negativity in the meantime.

Why would it be disparaging where the brand name Kodak is a mess these days, as you illustrate more than I was aware of.

BTW, Foma  makes and sells Fomadon Excel, which is identical to Xtol, but has the advantage that you can buy the powder for 1 liter. The 5 liter version of Kodak is probably in many cases just a big burden for the environment because the shelf life is short. 
https://www.fotoimpex.com/chemistry/foma-fomadon-excel-film-developer-to-mix-1000-ml.html

Edited by otto.f
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Pyrogallol

Pyrogallol

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ilford make a good range of developers,  Perceptol is a good developer with a reduction in film speed. Moersch Tanol is a favourite these days, a staining developer that comes in two small bottles with dropper ends for 1+1+100 dilution. Not forgetting Rodinal.

Edited by Pyrogallol
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Chuck Albertson

Chuck Albertson

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/28/2023 at 9:07 PM, adan said:

A few years back, most of my Kodak-branded photo chemicals were marked (in the finest of print) Made in Germany. I suspect (insert name) was outsourcing those to Tetenal at that time, before Tetenal's 2019 reorganization. Which was probably the impetus for the move to Sino Promise.

A chemical factory is a chemical factory - give them a formula and they can make it.

But that shift Rochester/Germany/China was an early hint of the problems of globalised supply chains, made even more evident by Covid, and now threatened by geopolitical/economic problems. On which I take no position here except they can be a PITA.

.............................

If worse comes to worst, I have transitioned to good old D-76 over the past few years anyway, so Harman/Ilford ID-11 will be an almost-straight-up replacement (unless that is made "somewhere else" now also). Either formula is also fairly easy to mix from scratch (last time I looked).

I would kinda miss "Kodak-branded" Rapid Fixer - I've always found it to be seriously faster than other claimants (1-2 minutes to "clear," 4 minutes to "done"), as well as cost-effective and easy to find (for the moment).

I queried the darkroom guy at my local camera store yesterday about the availability of Kodak chemistry. He said that the plant producing it (same as it ever was) won't start cranking it out until Jan 30 (don't know why that date, probably production scheduling), and that he's expecting product to start arriving in early March. He said they have a lot of it on order.

Edited by Chuck Albertson
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Danner

Danner

Posted
Posted

Just to quell the rumors a bit more, as of today, XTOL is in stock at B&H as well as FreeStyle.  FreeStyle also sells the ECO-PRO developer, which is an XTOL copy I have used, and works just like XTOL.

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