leica sl2 Leica SL2 AF

[NRKstudio]

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Does anyone with an SL2 have experience with Sony’s latest A7r4 or A9 series (1 or 2)?  I mainly shoot my family and my running toddlers and other fam events.  My Sony A7r4 grabs faces and holds focus without a thought and about 100% of the time, will the SL2 be competitive there?  

I mainly shoot an m10-p, but when autofocus is needed I grab the Sony.  I’m hoping to switch to the SL2 with an early preorder already made, but I’m only hesitant in its AF abilities.  Coming from a new Sony, I’m hoping it will be comparable.  My Q2 had solid AF abilities and great hit rate, if the SL2 is a step past that, it is indeed then competitive.  

[Mr.Q]

Running toddlers are one of the toughest subjects to track. I am doubtful that any non-Sony AF system would be comparable to your A7R4, but if the Q2 did fine so will the SL2.

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[Jared]

5 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

Does anyone with an SL2 have experience with Sony’s latest A7r4 or A9 series (1 or 2)?  I mainly shoot my family and my running toddlers and other fam events.  My Sony A7r4 grabs faces and holds focus without a thought and about 100% of the time, will the SL2 be competitive there?  

I mainly shoot an m10-p, but when autofocus is needed I grab the Sony.  I’m hoping to switch to the SL2 with an early preorder already made, but I’m only hesitant in its AF abilities.  Coming from a new Sony, I’m hoping it will be comparable.  My Q2 had solid AF abilities and great hit rate, if the SL2 is a step past that, it is indeed then competitive.  

Based on a demo unit I tried out briefly and the reviews I have read, don’t expect the SL2 to be competitive with your Sony for AF.  Competent?  Yes, definitely.  Better than the SL?  Assuredly.  Up to Sony standards?  No, not really.  That’s hard to do without phase detect.  The OOF blur on contrast detect doesn’t tell the camera the direction to go or the amount to go to correct Focus, so contrast detect is much more “trial and error”.  That’s also what causes the jitter in AF-C mode that Panasonic/Leica AF systems are known for.

That being said, toddlers can be erratic but generally aren’t that fast.  You’ll need to take some care with the AF parameters and with your choice of f-stop, but as long as you aren’t trying to get eyelash thin depth of field control I would expect the SL2 to be up to the task.  Sony level?  No.  Good enough that you could feel confident with family events?  Yeah.  I wouldn’t choose it for pro sports work or for birds in flight—for more reasons than just AF—but I think you could probably ditch the Sony for toddlers where it’s not so critical if your hit rate is “only” 80 or 90%.

Obviously, my experience with the camera is quite limited so far.  So are most reviewers’ experiences at this point.  So take my educated guesses as just that.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Jared

[SrMi]

30 minutes ago, Jared said:

Based on a demo unit I tried out briefly and the reviews I have read, don’t expect the SL2 to be competitive with your Sony for AF.  Competent?  Yes, definitely.  Better than the SL?  Assuredly.  Up to Sony standards?  No, not really.  That’s hard to do without phase detect.  The OOF blur on contrast detect doesn’t tell the camera the direction to go or the amount to go to correct Focus, so contrast detect is much more “trial and error”.  That’s also what causes the jitter in AF-C mode that Panasonic/Leica AF systems are known for.

That being said, toddlers can be erratic but generally aren’t that fast.  You’ll need to take some care with the AF parameters and with your choice of f-stop, but as long as you aren’t trying to get eyelash thin depth of field control I would expect the SL2 to be up to the task.  Sony level?  No.  Good enough that you could feel confident with family events?  Yeah.  I wouldn’t choose it for pro sports work or for birds in flight—for more reasons than just AF—but I think you could probably ditch the Sony for toddlers where it’s not so critical if your hit rate is “only” 80 or 90%.

Obviously, my experience with the camera is quite limited so far.  So are most reviewers’ experiences at this point.  So take my educated guesses as just that.

Leica SL, Panasonic S1 and hopefully SL2 use a variant of contrast detect autofocus called DFD. Using stored knowledge about the lens, the camera should know in which direction and how far to focus. DFD is considerably better than plain CDAF. Ideally it should combine the advantage of OSPDAF with CDAF but I do not think it is yet there.

[sillbeers15]

5 hours ago, Jared said:

Based on a demo unit I tried out briefly and the reviews I have read, don’t expect the SL2 to be competitive with your Sony for AF.  Competent?  Yes, definitely.  Better than the SL?  Assuredly.  Up to Sony standards?  No, not really.  That’s hard to do without phase detect.  The OOF blur on contrast detect doesn’t tell the camera the direction to go or the amount to go to correct Focus, so contrast detect is much more “trial and error”.  That’s also what causes the jitter in AF-C mode that Panasonic/Leica AF systems are known for.

That being said, toddlers can be erratic but generally aren’t that fast.  You’ll need to take some care with the AF parameters and with your choice of f-stop, but as long as you aren’t trying to get eyelash thin depth of field control I would expect the SL2 to be up to the task.  Sony level?  No.  Good enough that you could feel confident with family events?  Yeah.  I wouldn’t choose it for pro sports work or for birds in flight—for more reasons than just AF—but I think you could probably ditch the Sony for toddlers where it’s not so critical if your hit rate is “only” 80 or 90%.

Obviously, my experience with the camera is quite limited so far.  So are most reviewers’ experiences at this point.  So take my educated guesses as just that.

Are you a SL/S1/S1R user?

If such you will not make such blunder comments as: ‘That’s hard to do without phase detect.  The OOF blur on contrast detect doesn’t tell the camera the direction to go or the amount to go to correct Focus, so contrast detect is much more “trial and error”.  That’s also what causes the jitter in AF-C mode that Panasonic/Leica AF systems are known for.’

I have been a SL user for 4 years. What you have mentioned above on CDAF only applies to early CDAF point & shoot cameras. The DFD database of OOF images will inform the lens the direction to drive and amount to drive until close to focal point before full CDAF takes over. In Leica’s 90-289mm VE, there is dual servo motor to speed up the corse focusing.

AF hunting do occur when in Low light and strong back light situation for CDAF. Does it mean it is perfect for PDAF in those situations? PDAF users also have their share of complaints although the situation and level may defer.

Your argument about CDAF is slower than PDAF takes place when one attaches a non L alliance maker AF lens and mount it on SL/S1/S1R. As a matter of fact the AF does not even work for some of these lenses.

In the SL, I have yet to encounter AF issues on still subjects and face detect AF was really good. The weakness was in AF tracking. Also the refresh rate of the EVF isn’t fast enough on Continuous Drive mode causing soft/Low resolution images to appear while differ than actual shots. The Maestro II processor in the SL does not have enough capacity to fully support AF tracking well.

Now the SL2 comes with Maestro III processor, which the Q2 does not. Till date all the previewers mention fast AF. But I’m keen to know how much better the AF tracking success rate is? Some reviews mentioned >80%. The SL will typically be 50% to 60% due to a slower processor as I tend to get one sharp pics followed by one soft focused pic and another sharp pic that follows ( I do not personally think it is CDAF issue but rather the AF calculation isn’t faster than the frame drive speed).

I will only know after I collect my SL2.

Edited November 10, 2019 by sillbeers15

[NRKstudio]

4 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

Are you a SL/S1/S1R user?

If such you will not make such blunder comments as: ‘That’s hard to do without phase detect.  The OOF blur on contrast detect doesn’t tell the camera the direction to go or the amount to go to correct Focus, so contrast detect is much more “trial and error”.  That’s also what causes the jitter in AF-C mode that Panasonic/Leica AF systems are known for.’

I have been a SL user for 4 years. What you have mentioned above on CDAF only applies to early CDAF point & shoot cameras. The DFD database of OOF images will inform the lens the direction to drive and amount to drive until close to focal point before full CDAF takes over. In Leica’s 90-289mm VE, there is dual servo motor to speed up the corse focusing.

AF hunting do occur when in Low light and strong back light situation for CDAF. Does it mean it is perfect for PDAF in those situations? PDAF users also have their share of complaints although the situation and level may defer.

Your argument about CDAF is slower than PDAF takes place when one attaches a non L alliance maker AF lens and mount it on SL/S1/S1R. As a matter of fact the AF does not even work for some of these lenses.

In the SL, I have yet to encounter AF issues on still subjects and face detect AF was really good. The weakness was in AF tracking. Also the refresh rate of the EVF isn’t fast enough on Continuous Drive mode causing soft/Low resolution images to appear while differ than actual shots. The Maestro II processor in the SL does not have enough capacity to fully support AF tracking well.

Now the SL2 comes with Maestro III processor, which the Q2 does not. Till date all the previewers mention fast AF. But I’m keen to know how much better the AF tracking success rate is? Some reviews mentioned >80%. The SL will typically be 50% to 60% due to a slower processor as I tend to get one sharp pics followed by one soft focused pic and another sharp pic that follows ( I do not personally think it is CDAF issue but rather the AF calculation isn’t faster than the frame drive speed).

I will only know after I collect my SL2.

Hopefully the AF-C is better than the S1r I’ve rented with a 75 APO SL.  The face defect was weak, and it hunted often indoors with regular levels of filtered sunlight and ceiling light.  But thank you @Jared for the insight. 

I have a pre order as well, and I’m hoping it is going to take a step forward From the s1r and Q2 in terms of AF.  the Phoblographer’s review said the SL2 couldn’t track a person’s face walking slowly, approaching head on, in bright outdoor light.  I’m hoping that’s due to pre-production firmware! It sounds a lot like the issues the z7 had with face AF-C (In head on situations when a person is walking towards the camera) when it was first released.  
 

However. The Q2’s tracking was better than the s1r/75 APO, in my use, so hopefully the SL2 is ahead of that as well.

i asked earlier if it would be comparable to Sony’s latest tracking and eye-af, and hopefully it comes at least close.   The sonys latest tracking is 100% on, in medium to low light as well, even at very thin f-stops.  But alas the Sony is a completely different camera meant for a diff user base.  

[sillbeers15]

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1 hour ago, NRKstudio said:

Hopefully the AF-C is better than the S1r I’ve rented with a 75 APO SL.  The face defect was weak, and it hunted often indoors with regular levels of filtered sunlight and ceiling light.  But thank you @Jared for the insight. 

I have a pre order as well, and I’m hoping it is going to take a step forward From the s1r and Q2 in terms of AF.  the Phoblographer’s review said the SL2 couldn’t track a person’s face walking slowly, approaching head on, in bright outdoor light.  I’m hoping that’s due to pre-production firmware! It sounds a lot like the issues the z7 had with face AF-C (In head on situations when a person is walking towards the camera) when it was first released.  
 

However. The Q2’s tracking was better than the s1r/75 APO, in my use, so hopefully the SL2 is ahead of that as well.

i asked earlier if it would be comparable to Sony’s latest tracking and eye-af, and hopefully it comes at least close.   The sonys latest tracking is 100% on, in medium to low light as well, even at very thin f-stops.  But alas the Sony is a completely different camera meant for a diff user base.  

I am also waiting for my SL2. 

The processor and the firmware determines how good the mirrorless AF will be today. Sony A9II has no hardware spec change (except CPU) from A9. 

During the meet Steve McCurry breakfast session this morning, I took the SL2 mounted it with the 90-280mm outdoors for some shooting trials. Honestly I was struggling with the new menu set up as there were multiple selections on profile and detail settings.

I could not conclude anything from the little time I had just trying out with the SL2 regarding AF tracking as I had mixed results which I could not make up their cause. Just imagine the reviewers, who had a list of items to rest and not to mention having to get familiar with the camera.

[Chaemono]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb NRKstudio:

Hopefully the AF-C is better than the S1r I’ve rented with a 75 APO SL.  The face defect was weak, and it hunted often indoors with regular levels of filtered sunlight and ceiling light.  But thank you @Jared for the insight. 

S1 focuses faster than S1R due to smaller files. Sillbeers15 hopefully is right about the new processor in the SL2.  The set up for AF makes an initial assessment difficult as I found out from my in-store experience yesterday.  

[lx1713]

On 11/10/2019 at 1:22 PM, NRKstudio said:

 

However. The Q2’s tracking was better than the s1r/75 APO, in my use, so hopefully the SL2 is ahead of that as well.

 

The Q2 is a 28mm so I would not get my hopes to high by basing on that experience.

[caissa]

On 11/10/2019 at 6:22 AM, NRKstudio said:

i asked earlier if it would be comparable to Sony’s latest tracking and eye-af, and hopefully it comes at least close.   The sonys latest tracking is 100% on, in medium to low light as well, even at very thin f-stops.  But alas the Sony is a completely different camera meant for a diff user base.  

The Sony A9 ii offers 20 frames/s of 24 MP, the a7R iv 60 MP and 10 frames/s . (Actually measured 7.2 f/s uncompressed raw and 8 f/s compressed raw).
The SL2 with 20 frames/s of 47 MP has to move almost twice the amount of data in the same time. So I would be surprised if it can show the same speed. This is logic for me, but maybe I am completely wrong and it is much faster ....  we will see in a few days. (21st)
I am just glad I do not need tracking AF (or only very seldom), as the SL2s normal AF seems to be very fast.

In the end it is not really that important if it can keep up with Sony, but rather if it can keep up with your needs. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by caissa

[frame-it]

i have to say the APO SL-summicron 50mm focus speed was blazing fast.......................

[sillbeers15]

13 minutes ago, frame-it said:

i have to say the APO SL-summicron 50mm focus speed was blazing fast.......................

With the 90-280 on SL2, I did not feel the focusing speed changed. Perhaps it does but marginal. I guess the original SL is fast already.

[helged]

9 hours ago, caissa said:

In the end it is not really that important if it can keep up with Sony, but rather if it can keep up with your needs. 

Today's bes...t! 😉

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb frame-it:

i have to say the APO SL-summicron 50mm focus speed was blazing fast.......................

It's instantaneous, I'd say.

[frame-it]

3 hours ago, Chaemono said:

It's instantaneous, I'd say.

faster than that! it was almost like the camera was screaming "hurry up Dammit take another shot!"..and the general operation with that new processor....wicked fast and smooth.....sigh

 

[Chaemono]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb frame-it:

faster than that! it was almost like the camera was screaming "hurry up Dammit take another shot!"..and the general operation with that new processor....wicked fast and smooth.....sigh

 

And the best thing is, the AF performance comes with no PDAF banding, unlike Sony and Nikon mirrorless where the files start to fall apart when pushed hard enough. 😂

[frame-it]

All rigged up, he was shooting video..in available light at the gallery

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[frame-it]

On 11/10/2019 at 4:16 PM, sillbeers15 said:

Honestly I was struggling with the new menu set up as there were multiple selections on profile and detail settings.

I could not conclude anything from the little time I had just trying out with the SL2 regarding AF tracking as I had mixed results which I could not make up their cause. Just imagine the reviewers, who had a list of items to rest and not to mention having to get familiar with the camera.

i didn't like the new menus too much..but hey i guess that's not gonna change now.

[thighslapper]

10 hours ago, frame-it said:

i didn't like the new menus too much..but hey i guess that's not gonna change now.

Hopefully like the SL once you have sorted out what you want and some profiles a venture into the actual menus will be rare. 

I have to say the S1R is exemplary in this regard .... but there again it has a lot of dedicated and customisable buttons. 

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[frame-it]

i think it was more a case of being used to a certain way then suddenly having to check and set stuff..probably take a day to sort it out and get used to it..i did find the 2 front buttons irritating to press correctly