leica sl2 Leica SL2 AF

[sillbeers15]

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5 hours ago, Chaemono said:

On the other hand, I totally agree with you on the EVF.  The SL2 uses a smaller EVF chip than the SL1.  It probably saves on energy.

There are 2 refresh rate settings, 60fps & 120fps.

I would rather it save processing power and provide more for the AF calculation.

Edited November 23, 2019 by sillbeers15

[Jeff S]

This sucks if true that the EVF is problematic for clear and natural subject viewing in varying light, or for clear focusing via MF or AF, particularly with static subjects. I’m already hesitant with EVFs in general, and wasn’t as enamored as others by the SL EVF,  hoping this was another step forward. (I was, however, surprisingly impressed by the lower resolution EVF in the Nikon Z7.) It’s a top priority for me in the SL2, along with IBIS, which seems to deliver as advertised. 

I’m trying to find time to make it to my closest Leica store for a demo. Before reading about these issues, and pending the demo,  I was fairly confident that I would go ahead with a small dealer I found to purchase an available kit with 24-90 zoom.  Not so confident now.

Jeff

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[Chaemono]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb sillbeers15:

There are 2 refresh rate settings, 60fps & 120fps.

I would rather it save processing power and provide more for the AF calculation.

It probably makes the SL2 cheaper and, therefore, more competitive, too.  First, Epson hasn't come out with a new EVF chip and second, had they and Leica would have chosen it, I suspect, the SL2 would be significantly more expensive.  The same 5.76M-dot EVF chip is used by the S1/R, and the α7R IV. 

[anickpick]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb sillbeers15:

There are 2 refresh rate settings, 60fps & 120fps.

I would rather it save processing power and provide more for the AF calculation.

 

AF is faster with the 120fps setting in lower light situations.

[Mr.Q]

7 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I was, however, surprisingly impressed by the lower resolution EVF in the Nikon Z7

That's the same OLED panel used in the Sony A9, X1D II, and Leica Q2 fyi.

[LocalHero1953]

Back in the dark ages when I got my first Nikon digital P&S, what Leica calls Pre-Focus was then called Continuous AF. It was a real battery hog, not surprisingly, and was the reason I didn't keep that camera long.

[Jeff S]

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1 hour ago, Mr.Q said:

That's the same OLED panel used in the Sony A9, X1D II, and Leica Q2 fyi.

But the overall optical path, glass used and implementation is different, as Nikon explains.  It showed me that the EVF and its specs are only part of the equation, and maybe not the most important part for me. It was a more ‘natural’ viewing experience than I’ve experienced with other similar EVFs.  The only caveat was that the light was not overly bright and contrasty the day I demo-ed it, so further testing might prompt another reaction.

Jeff

[Mr.Q]

You're right. I have all of the cameras that I mentioned above and they're all a bit different. The A9 finder has more eye relief than the Q2, and the X1D II finder is just massive.

[digitalfx]

The SL2 has AFc mode which is continuous + this setting called “Pre-Focus” 

what exactly is Pre-Focus?

I had to turn off “pre focus” as my lens hunts continuously while it’s enabled even when I select AFs mode.

Last night I shot a bunch of handheld video (4K/24/LOG/400MBs) at an event with large groups of people with AFc mode enabled (all at f2.0). For the most part it worked very well, the focus looked very natural and was not noticeable.
The only negative- it was a bit slow, not much, but just enough that it was noticeable. There were also quite a few occasions when the lens was completely out of focus and AF couldn’t bring it back in or it shifted focus to the wrong subject abruptly. But overall it actually worked very well and most of the footage is usable.

if speed can be improved slightly with fw, it can be a great asset. A few observations/questions:

1- it’s extremely loud when not recording, and I wonder if the stiffness of the lens has any effect on the motors? In MF the lens is very stiff, significantly stiffer than any of my M or R lenses- it is so stiff MF is difficult. AF makes an odd sound in very short bursts continuously when enabled. Once you start recording the sound level drops significantly- is this normal?

2- is it possible to allow MF override when AF is enabled? There were several occasions when shooting that I wanted to grab the lens and show the SL2 where to focus. Especially when it was completely out of focus and AF couldn’t bring it back in (several occasions it took 10 seconds to find the initial focus)

One additional note- IBIS is amazing. This feature alone justifies upgrading from the SL, especially for video. Handheld footage is 1000x more usable with this enabled.

[LocalHero1953]

My Summicron-SL 90 had unacceptably stiff manual focus - Leica UK agreed, and it has gone back to Wetzlar under warranty.

The further you go on the spectrum from amateur to pro video, the less AF is used vis-a-vis MF, for exactly the reason you give: in good video, any uncertainty in AF operation is painfully obvious, even when it works better than it did in your case.

Edited November 23, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[digitalfx]

16 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

My Summicron-SL 90 had unacceptably stiff manual focus - Leica UK agreed, and it has gone back to Wetzlar under warranty.

The further you go on the spectrum from amateur to pro video, the less AF is used vis-a-vis MF, for exactly the reason you give: in good video, any uncertainty in AF operation is painfully obvious, even when it works better than it did in your case.

We would never consider AF in professional settings, the closest we get is using a device called CineTape which measures the distance to the subject and displays it on a screen above the lens to aid the AC in hitting his marks...but we also always have at least a 3-5 person crew just for operating camera and an AC, who's sole job is to follow focus while the operator frames the camera. But with these smaller cameras it kind of defeats the purpose...so I can see AF being a useful tool especially in situations like the one I shot last night. Regardless MF will always be preferred. For me the SL2 is an alternative to grab footage when I am by myself...in these situations AF could be priceless if it works

[BernardC]

30 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

I wonder if the stiffness of the lens has any effect on the motors?

I think that the SL lenses are all "focus by wire," with an internal focusing group moved by motors. Leica should be able to adjust the stiffness of the focusing ring.

[BernardC]

42 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

The only negative- it was a bit slow, not much, but just enough that it was noticeable.

That should be adjustable in firmware, although it may not be a menu option. Canon cine cameras let you adjust AF speed. As you know, nothing beats a talented focus puller who can time focus changes to the pacing of a shot.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

22 hours ago, digitalfx said:

seems like all the reviews raved about the improvement over the SL...but hopefully fw can address some issues, its really bad in my camera.

I'd have it looked at. If I turn off iAF the VF is as good as my S1R.

Gordon

[sillbeers15]

I have taken delivery of my SL2 last Thursday. Yesterday afternoon I took it for a trial. My addenda was to test the AFC & Tracking mode to capture fast appearing, fast motion and no fixed pattern object. My thoughts were what could be better than trying to apply Birds in Flight (BIF).

There were several criticisms on the AF of Leica SL2 not working for capturing motion subjects as the tracking is not reliable or simply does not work. My attempt is non scientific but I would be comfortable to only make certain conclusions only with sufficient data points and repeated trends.

For a start, many YouTube reviews on SL2 were carried out by photographers who mainly shot a couple of street scenes, indoors and outdoors over a couple hundred of shots on multiple subjects and applications. Many or almost all were sloppy to give general comments on either AF on motion subjects work or do not work. Unfortunately some viewers accept and believe biblically the comments provided by the critics. 

I think we should think and ask further questions to make our own sense rather that believing because the reviewers is such a person I trust. My own analysis of many of the criticisms on the AF of SL2 not good for capturing motions are segregated into two categories. One, the term focusing tracking is used loosely. I only call it focus tracking when the Tracking mode is selected on medium continuous drive (or slower) mode settings. Many reviews mixed it with face/body detection mode (which I will attempt to try that later). Second is the successful application of the AFC/Tracking. You may aim your white box at the moving subject, unless it turned green and follows tracking the subject frame after frame, you would not have successfully tracked focus on SL2 even though the shutter triggers and you get shots. 

On 23rd November 2019 afternoon I went on taking my SL2 for an intended BIF shooting trial to test the AF tracking function of the camera. I took some 350pics of which more than 250s were on BIF alone. I posted 3 shots in the SL2 image tread #81. Two of three images were BIF.

Before my first test trial with my SL2, I’ve decided what better than to trust the camera completely and determine the results. So I set my camera on Program mode, Auto ISO, image stabilisation to ON. AFC, single point focus, Wildlife Autofocus profile and Tracking were selected. I mounted my SL2 with my VE90-280 lens and APSC-mode was selected for better reach on BIF.

The Autofocus success rate ( based on pics and not EVF screen during shoot) when the AFC box turned green and begin tracking has improved much over my previous SL. The success rate is above 80% as mentioned by some reviewers earlier. I was surprised that the camera could track subjects that were relatively small in relation to the frame. However the same weakness of poor AF still applies over subjects over strong back light. As my challenge was BIF, and I did encounter multiple of those situations. Most of the time if the subject is darker than the brightly lited sky, there is some level of difficulty to lock focus. Either the AF gets completely thrown off ( when background becomes way too bright) or the box refused to turn green. With that happening, you either could still shoot but the AF success rate is very varied, some pleasant surprises took place. There were also situations that the box jumps to the lower left corner after turning green. On chasing fast moving subjects, there’s just no time to think. The reactive actions were just ‘shoot’.

So my conclusion is that the AF tracking motion subjects do work. 

The SL2 AF tracking has improved much over SL. The success rate of more than 80% happens when one successfully locks on AF tracking. As I am not a professional photographer and am not hard press to deliver many good pics daily, I am happy with the AF tracking motion subjects of the SL2.

[sillbeers15]

I am showing the 11 frames shot with successfully AFC/Tracking locked-on with Bird in flight as motion subject to test the SL2's AF capability based on camera autofucus settings (6fps Continuous Drive Medium and P mode with Auto ISO settings on camera):

AFC/Tracking/AF profile:Wildlife/single point AF.

Out of the 11 shots from L10000209 to L10000219, frame L10000214 was delivered with 'soft' focused picture.

You be the critic to determine if the SL2's AF tracking is junk like said by a few YouTube reviewers?

Or is it acceptable AF tracking capability based on your expectations?

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SL2AFtracking-L1000209 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000210 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000211 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000212 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000213 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000214 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000215 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000216 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000217 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000218 by sillbeers15

SL2AFtracking-L1000219 by sillbeers15

Edited November 24, 2019 by sillbeers15

[sillbeers15]

After several YouTube SL2 Hands on video reviewers' negative comments  of SL2's AF Tracking for motion shots, it was a great relief for me after personally carrying out the trials on real BIF motion subject and now confirming the SL2's AF capability is good for overall photography applications. It has indeed improved in AF tracking accuracy and reliability over the SL. Like some of the SL2 reviewer's remark in this forum that the AF Tracking success rate is greater than 80%, I can agree to that now that I have done trials myself and have managed to achieve that as well.

As a side note, I've also discovered the SL2's remarkable DR and noise control which I've tested @ ISO100. I can show the results in a separate post later on what I saw was what the camera captured (in exposure) and the remarkable post process in LR could make out.

Overall the SL2 looks to be a great and easy to use photographic tool at this early stage of ownership and use. I have seen the benefits of a FF 47.3MPx sensor although I was a sceptic earlier. As a matter of fact, I confidently select 'APSC' frame to shoot subjects at a distance which the longest SL native lens VE90-280 was just a shade short of reach. Further cropping in post was also lesser in pain over resolution.

[digitalfx]

On 11/23/2019 at 3:29 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I'd have it looked at. If I turn off iAF the VF is as good as my S1R.

Gordon

But how does it compare to SL?

[FlashGordonPhotography]

1 hour ago, digitalfx said:

But how does it compare to SL?

Sharpness? The same.

The SL and SL2 viewfinders are different. The SL2 is better overall but the SL is a bit bigger (more magnification). I don't know which I prefer.

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[meerec]

1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

SL2 is better overall but the SL is a bit bigger (more magnification). I don't know which I prefer.

bigger = better as always 😂😬 so I may cancel my order, glad I haven’t sold my SL yet @FlashGordonPhotography ... and, the GPS, bring it back!!!