Colour photographer buys an M10 Monochrom (image thread not open)

[Steven]

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[Steven]

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[gotium]

47 minutes ago, Steven said:

It really feels like that. Total Sadness. Like someone robbed something from you and you're morning your loss. Every morning when looking at my screen and realising there's no color. It feels empty. 

Get over it please. These images are just too good.

[adan]

10 hours ago, Steven said:

But I much preferred my visit to the desert with my SL2S.... 😑 my week in monochrome has felt very monotonous and ..... colorless. 

Black and white makes me feel sad. Sometime it suits the scene, but have to see in BW all the time makes everything looks the same to me. Backgrounds become less important, scenes are simplified... and its a very negative thing for me. 

If you took all the girls I knew when I was single
And brought 'em all together for one night
I know they'd never match my sweet imagination
Everything looks worse in black and white.

Kodachro-oh-ome!
They give us those nice bright colors
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world's a sunny day, oh yeah
I got a Nikon Leica camera
I love to take a photograph
So mama, don't take my Kodachrome away

Paul SImon

[Steven]

17 minutes ago, gotium said:

Get over it please. These images are just too good.

thank you. They would be better in color ! 

[Steven]

Me telling my three year old boy to be careful with the fire 

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[Steven]

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My three year old boy: 

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[Jon Warwick]

16 hours ago, Steven said:

I might still change my mind, but this is where I stand after being imposed to shoot in BW for a few days... I feel sad.

It’s an interesting view. Each to their own opinion and reaction to B&W, of course. In my case, I know B&W doesn’t work as well for me when I take images of family. It feels like a layer of reality (ie, colour) is stripped away from the recording of that memory. That makes me hesitant to use it for that purpose. But for many other situations, where I’m not as connected to the subject, I feel the art created by B&W can exist as its own beautiful form.

[Luke_Miller]

For me there is no "one size fits all" solution.  When I started in photography B&W (film) was the only affordable choice. So I shot everything in B&W.  When color film (and processing)  became affordable I began shooting everything in color.  Now with digital I can choose either, or both.  I go through a conscious decision process which generally boils down to "does color add or subtract from what I am trying to capture in this image?"  For events generally I find color is important since it is the way the participants experienced it.  For portraiture, both formal and candid, I often prefer B&W since one tends to be immediately drawn to the subject's eyes (where I focused). Also for landscapes and architectural shots where fine details and subtle tones are most important I prefer B&W.  

I am no longer satisfied with B&W conversion from color images having experienced the Monochroms.  This often requires me to take two bodies with me 🙂

Edited November 6, 2021 by Luke_Miller
typo

[Herr Barnack]

On 11/5/2021 at 2:21 AM, Steven said:

But I much preferred my visit to the desert with my SL2S.... 😑 my week in monochrome has felt very monotonous and ..... colorless. 

Black and white makes me feel sad. Sometime it suits the scene, but have to see in BW all the time makes everything looks the same to me. Backgrounds become less important, scenes are simplified... and its a very negative thing for me. 

@Steven I can't say for certain, but it seems like you may be experiencing a kind of "culture shock" (for lack of a better term) in jumping from color to black and white so abruptly.

When I look at images that I have made in black and white, I have found that the thing to do is to appreciate them for what they present to the eye and not think in terms of whether the image would have been better in color or not.  Second guessing your black and white images is the path to misery; if you can be glad for what black and white is able to do for an image and accept it at face value, you will not regret your choice to shoot in B&W rather than color. 

IMHO, the paradox of B&W is that it can at once both simplify an image (or a body of work) and reveal it to be more intricate and complex than color.  Color tends to be more of a "what you see is what you get" proposition.

This is my approach, my way of thinking about black and white.  Hope it helps. 

The B&W images you have posted in this thread are outstanding - don't give up hope with regard to black and white.

 

[harmen]

On 11/5/2021 at 2:21 PM, Steven said:

I might still change my mind, but this is where I stand after being imposed to shoot in BW for a few days... I feel sad.

Sadness is a wonderful emotion to express through photos.  

[Steven]

5 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Second guessing your black and white images is the path to misery; if you can be glad for what black and white is able to do for an image and accept it at face value, you will not regret your choice to shoot in B&W rather than color. 

This resonates with me with every aspect of life. Easy to say/write, not easy to act upon! But it's an inspiring way to approach things. Thank you, Herr. 

[Steven]

44 minutes ago, harmen said:

Sadness is a wonderful emotion to express through photos.  

True. But it's the opposite of my style, or rather how I see my style. 

[Steven]

18 hours ago, Luke_Miller said:

For me there is no "one size fits all" solution.  When I started in photography B&W (film) was the only affordable choice. So I shot everything in B&W.  When color film (and processing)  became affordable I began shooting everything in color.  Now with digital I can choose either, or both.  I go through a conscious decision process which generally boils down to "does color add or subtract from what I am trying to capture in this image?"  For events generally I find color is important since it is the way the participants experienced it.  For portraiture, both formal and candid, I often prefer B&W since one tends to be immediately drawn to the subject's eyes (where I focused). Also for landscapes and architectural shots where fine details and subtle tones are most important I prefer B&W.  

I am no longer satisfied with B&W conversion from color images having experienced the Monochroms.  This often requires me to take two bodies with me 🙂

Thank you very much for this post. I identify a lot with what you say and I believe that your general approach might be the one that works for me, too. I'm pinning this somewhere in my head. 

[Steven]

18 hours ago, Luke_Miller said:

I go through a conscious decision process which generally boils down to "does color add or subtract from what I am trying to capture in this image?

This is probably very true, and a good way for me to approach the matter. 

I've scrolled through the 2500 BW photos I took this week in dubai, and found two for which I truly do not think that colours were a necessary. As a matter of fact, colours would probably worsen these two photos

 

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[Ken Abrahams]

Nice pictures Steven. I think the colour part of you is giving the emerging black and white part of you, a very hard time indeed.   

[Guest Nowhereman]

Hi @Steven - Looking at your B&W photos taken with the M10-M, I can see why you say that you prefer your color photography. Briefly, I would say good B&W often requires (1) a great deal of processing on the overall image as well as, when the light is difficult, selective burning or dodging, and (2) digital B&W has to deal with the quality of the highlight roll-off and with the “great balls of fire” (as the song goes) — meaning the bokeh-balls” that can dominate the image, especially when there are bright lights in the background of a night scene.

Thinking abut this, I looked at some night shots in Bangkok that I made with the M9 a few years ago. As the M9 has weak high-ISO performance, the best way to shoot it at night is to expose at ISO 640 and “push” exposure by as much as 2-4 stops in post-processing. Interestingly, I find that my favorite M9 night shots were made with my 21mm lens (Elmarit-M 21 ASPH, at ISO 640 and f/2.8 and exposed with a shutter speed as low I could go handheld: 1/30 sec, 1/60 sec etc. That means, in the SOOC image, often almost nothing is visible. With this way of shooting the highlights, for example neon lights from shops or food carts on unlit, dark Bangkok streets looked beautiful: in other words, no bokeh-balls.

Now, I take it that your M10-M shots in Dubai were taken with a Summilux 35mm pre-ASPH (or sometimes with a Summilux 35AA?), mostly at f/1.4. Shooting with a 21 lens at f/2.8 is equivalent (I suppose) to f/4, or perhaps sometimes even f/5.6, on a 35mm lens in terms of what’s going to happen to the bokeh-balls because of the reduced DOF. There can also be an issue with veiling flare, especially with the 35mm pre-ASPH. It seems to me that you should try night shooting with the M10-M and a 35mm lens at high ISO, say, 12,500-50,000 at apertures of f/4 and f/5.6 and see what happens to the highlights in the background. But, still, you may have to do some post-processing, either to mitigate veiling flare or to avoid a muddy tonal palette: that is to say, to get the blacks really black if the streets are really dark.
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Frog Leaping photobook and Instagram

[Herr Barnack]

Quote

...But, still, you may have to do some post-processing, either to mitigate veiling flare or to avoid a muddy tonal palette: that is to say, to get the blacks really black if the streets are really dark.

The whites and the blacks are what catch my eye in a black and white photograph. 

Shades of gray are important too, but if there is only midtone grays, the image can look mundane.  Contrast is the key IMHO. 

An image with very light grays and very dark grays is effective, too.  High key B&W images as well as low key B&W images can also be effective.  It's the images that are all midtone grays that seem flat and lifeless. 

Everyone sees differently when it comes to black and white so the above is "the world according to my eye."

[Steven]

1 hour ago, Nowhereman said:

Hi @Steven - Looking at your B&W photos taken with the M10-M, I can see why you say that you prefer your color photography. Briefly, I would say good B&W often requires (1) a great deal of processing on the overall image as well as, when the light is difficult, selective burning or dodging, and (2) digital B&W has to deal with the quality of the highlight roll-off and with the “great balls of fire” (as the song goes) — meaning the bokeh-balls” that can dominate the image, especially when there are bright lights in the background of a night scene.

Thinking abut this, I looked at some night shots in Bangkok that I made with the M9 a few years ago. As the M9 has weak high-ISO performance, the best way to shoot it at night is to expose at ISO 640 and “push” exposure by as much as 2-4 stops in post-processing. Interestingly, I find that my favorite M9 night shots were made with my 21mm lens (Elmarit-M 21 ASPH, at ISO 640 and f/2.8 and exposed with a shutter speed as low I could go handheld: 1/30 sec, 1/60 sec etc. That means, in the SOOC image, often almost nothing is visible. With this way of shooting the highlights, for example neon lights from shops or food carts on unlit, dark Bangkok streets looked beautiful: in other words, no bokeh-balls.

Now, I take it that your M10-M shots in Dubai were taken with a Summilux 35mm pre-ASPH (or sometimes with a Summilux 35AA?), mostly at f/1.4. Shooting with a 21 lens at f/2.8 is equivalent (I suppose) to f/4, or perhaps sometimes even f/5.6, on a 35mm lens in terms of what’s going to happen to the bokeh-balls because of the reduced DOF. There can also be an issue with veiling flare, especially with the 35mm pre-ASPH. It seems to me that you should try night shooting with the M10-M and a 35mm lens at high ISO, say, 12,500-50,000 at apertures of f/4 and f/5.6 and see what happens to the highlights in the background. But, still, you may have to do some post-processing, either to mitigate veiling flare or to avoid a muddy tonal palette: that is to say, to get the blacks really black if the streets are really dark.
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Frog Leaping photobook and Instagram

Very interesting, Mitch, thanks for taking the time to write this. 

Most day shots were at F2.8 or more closed down, so no veiling on the pre asph. At night, they were most on the pre asph at 1.4 and 2. I will experiment your suggestions while shooting in the next days. 

As far as editing, I confirm to you that I am still far from mastering it, as stated in the first post of this thread. For now, I'm only touching the exposure, contrast, and shadow sliders. I suppose that only practice will help me with this. Just as it was with colour. 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[kivis]

On 10/27/2021 at 12:11 PM, Nowhereman said:

People in Paris aren't wearing masks these days?
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Frog Leaping photobook and Instagram

Funny you mentioned that. I live in Sunny Florida where there are no mask mandates at all and 75% of its citizens wear masks indoors and outdoors, and in their cars while driving alone. At this point, I think it is a mental illness since almost all are vaccinated. Or maybe I'm mentally ill.