35 Summilux Pre-ASPH vs 35 Summicron Pre-ASPH vs 35 Summicron ASPH (2016 edition)

[evikne]

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12 minutes ago, Steven said:

I still have not completely made my mind. I love it aesthetically, but I really struggle with the images that come out of it. Sometimes, they look fine, but most times, they're too glowy, or too flary, or too colourless.... 

The more I use it, the more I start appreciate my Voigt nokton. Similar design, similar size, similar rendering wide open, but much more controlled, and perfected. 

I also received my 35 cron v4 (silver) today. It seems like a great lens, as a compact option, but it doesnt look to outperform the Voigt at F2 and further stopped down. The only advantage of the Voigt is the wider opening. 

And of course, none of these three lens, in my opinion so far, seem to come close to my 35 pre fle. 

Now you may understand why a 35mm journey can be long and wobbly? 😄

[Steven]

1 minute ago, evikne said:

Now you may understand why a 35mm journey can be long and wobbly? 😄

More than ever. And even more now that at the time of post #101. 

I just mounted my pre asph v1 to my SL2-S and got an amazing shot ! It seems like when the lens want to give you, you are very rewarded. But a lot of shots are also ruined because of it. 

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[lct]

Because of it really?

[Steven]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Because of it really?

Yes, because of it. 

Tonight, for example, I wanted to take a photo of a bench next to a lamppost. I had to adjust my position and give up on what I though was the best composition in order to avoid flare. Unless I'm missing something, I missed a shot I wanted because of it. A shot I could have easily gotten with my Pre Fle, or even my Nokton. 

The lens gives, but not unconditionally. First impression of course. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Steven

[Mr.Prime]

I only have the nokton, but today took it out for a stroll. As a result, I am now more curious of alternatives because of two key things I noticed, 

i) I didn’t miss having my 50mm to hand, clearly the 35mm focal length felt nice to use so I must have at least one good 35mm lens and with a mix of character and accuracy like my 50mm lux pre. (a keeper), i.e. 35mm just became more important for me!

ii) I’m still fumbling for the focus tab, instead of a focus ring, especially when changing from landscape orientation to portrait orientation (doesn’t help that the RF patch seems to work bette4 in landscape). i.e. feel of the lens is important!

 

I really like not having finder blockage.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Mr.Prime

[Steven]

1 minute ago, Mr.Prime said:

doesn’t help that the RF patch seems to work bette4 in landscape

Isn't that the same for all lenses ? I can never see the patch in portrait orientation ! I focus in landscape, then rotate my camera. 

 

2 minutes ago, Mr.Prime said:

I’m still fumbling for the focus tab,

Not sure if the Lux pre asph will help in that regard, especially not an infinity lock one. 

 

2 minutes ago, Mr.Prime said:

I must have at least one good 35mm lens and with a mix of character and accuracy like my 50mm lux pre

Interesting, which one are you thinking about then ? I can think of two that ive tried that answer to that description. 

[lct]

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9 minutes ago, Steven said:

Yes, because of it. 

Tonight, for example, I wanted to take a photo of a bench next to a lamppost. I had to adjust my position and give up on what I though was the best composition in order to avoid flare. Unless I'm missing something, I missed a shot I wanted because of it. A shot I could have easily gotten with my Pre Fle, or even my Nokton. 

The lens gives, but not unconditionally. First impression of course. 

I could not disagree more sorry. It is never because of it and always because of us. Lenses like the Summilux has been used by the best photographers. It deserves to be respected and used as such. There is a learning curve with lenses like this. If you find it too difficult to avoid flare you may wish to use an EVF... or try another lens .

[Steven]

2 minutes ago, lct said:

you may wish to use an EVF...

I was in live view mode, this was not the issue. The issue is that the lens didn't not allow me (technically) to get the shot that I wanted. I had to adapt myself around the lens. Even an extremely talented photographer who's shot nothing else but this lens for the past 120 years could not have gotten the exact shot I wanted. Technically not possible, because of the flaring. Because of it, I didn't get the shot I wanted. 

That being said, of course I'll learn to work with it, around it.... if I decide to keep it. 

[evikne]

3 minutes ago, Steven said:

Even an extremely talented photographer who's shot nothing else but this lens for the past 120 years could not have gotten the exact shot I wanted.

But they had perhaps got the picture they wanted.

[Ernstk]

19 minutes ago, lct said:

I could not disagree more sorry. It is never because of it and always because of us. Lenses like the Summilux has been used by the best photographers. It deserves to be respected and used as such. There is a learning curve with lenses like this. If you find it too difficult to avoid flare you may wish to use an EVF... or try another lens .

I couldn't agree with you more. It's not the lens, it's the photographer. My feeling is that if you obsess over a lens, you're less likely to be focussed (no pun) on the resulting photo.  

Ernst

[Jul]

38 minutes ago, Steven said:

Yes, because of it. 

Tonight, for example, I wanted to take a photo of a bench next to a lamppost. I had to adjust my position and give up on what I though was the best composition in order to avoid flare. Unless I'm missing something, I missed a shot I wanted because of it. A shot I could have easily gotten with my Pre Fle, or even my Nokton. 

The lens gives, but not unconditionally. First impression of course. 

I see two possible scenarios:

- lamp was in the frame, flare depends on lens' susceptibility to it.

- lamp was just around the frame, you were using liveview, one hand not pressing the shutter, the lens is tiny enough to let you hold the body with just one hand and the bench was hardly a moving target. I guess with cautious movement from your second hand it could have been possible to shelter the front element from straylight, liveview helping you to check that the second hand does not appear in the frame.

Now, in retrospect, if you were in the second scenario, was it because of the lens? Of course, if you were in the first scenario, just ignore this post.

[DezFoto]

41 minutes ago, lct said:

I could not disagree more sorry. It is never because of it and always because of us. Lenses like the Summilux has been used by the best photographers. It deserves to be respected and used as such. There is a learning curve with lenses like this. If you find it too difficult to avoid flare you may wish to use an EVF... or try another lens .

I've never understood positions like this, no lens is perfect and just because a lens is expensive or has been used by a famous photographer, doesn't mean that it's beyond reproach or is ideal for us mere mortal photographers. I have several Leica lenses that have a hard time controlling flair, especially the older designs. Leica has never been able to match Zeiss when it comes to lens coatings and sometimes it's just not worth sacrificing your composition because of a lens that can't control flair effectively.

As a photographer, it's better to use equipment that allows you to work the way you want to, rather than having to conform your photography to the way the equipment requires you to work. Remember, it's you that's creating art, not the camera/lens. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by DezFoto

[lct]

14 minutes ago, DezFoto said:

I've never understood positions like this, no lens is perfect and just because a lens is expensive or has been used by a famous photographer, doesn't mean that it's beyond reproach or is ideal for us mere mortal photographers. I have several Leica lenses that have a hard time controlling flair, especially the older designs. Leica has never been able to match Zeiss when it comes to lens coatings and sometimes it's just not worth sacrificing your composition because of a lens that can't control flair effectively.

As a photographer, it's better to use equipment that allows you to work the way you want to, rather than having to conform your photography to the way the equipment requires you to work. Remember, it's you that's creating art, not the camera/lens. 

I did not say a single word about expensive lenses. I just said, or tried to say, that when a pic is not good the lens is never the culprit, it is always the photographer.

[Mr.Prime]

2 minutes ago, lct said:

I did not say a single word about expensive lenses. I just said, or tried to say, that when a pic is not good the lens is never the culprit, it is always the photographer.

you speak for yourself! 😀

[lct]

1 minute ago, Mr.Prime said:

you speak for yourself! 😀

I would if i were a photographer.

[Steven]

1 hour ago, Jul said:

I see two possible scenarios:

- lamp was in the frame, flare depends on lens' susceptibility to it.

- lamp was just around the frame, you were using liveview, one hand not pressing the shutter, the lens is tiny enough to let you hold the body with just one hand and the bench was hardly a moving target. I guess with cautious movement from your second hand it could have been possible to shelter the front element from straylight, liveview helping you to check that the second hand does not appear in the frame.

Now, in retrospect, if you were in the second scenario, was it because of the lens? Of course, if you were in the first scenario, just ignore this post.

Scenario 2, and I actually tried to block the light with my hand ! Didn't work...

With the Nokton, the flare would have been here, but in the form of a nice circular rainbow, that would have actually brought something nice to the photo. On the pre asph lux, it looked more like vaseline than rainbows. 

[Steven]

1 hour ago, DezFoto said:

sometimes it's just not worth sacrificing your composition because of a lens that can't control flair effectively.

Thank you for not missing my point ! The others use easy, cliché excuses ("its not the lens its the photog") to completely miss my point. It's a thread talking about lenses, not each other competences as photographers. 

I didn't care about the photo of the bench with the lamppost, im just saying that if there was a couple kissing under a red umbrella on that bench, I couldn't not have gotten the shot, at least not with the best competition. 

And since we're into clichés, here's another one: "it's not the man adopting to the tool, its the tool adapting to the man". 

[Steven]

1 hour ago, lct said:

I did not say a single word about expensive lenses. I just said, or tried to say, that when a pic is not good the lens is never the culprit, it is always the photographer.

You're missing the point again. 

[Ernstk]

21 minutes ago, Steven said:

Scenario 2, and I actually tried to block the light with my hand ! Didn't work...

With the Nokton, the flare would have been here, but in the form of a nice circular rainbow, that would have actually brought something nice to the photo. On the pre asph lux, it looked more like vaseline than rainbows. 

You obviously want to make this lens work for you, that's clear from what you have posted. I'm guessing that since it's a v1 steel rim, it wouldn't have been a cheap lens.

Why don't you send it to someone reputable who can clean it and service it? It may just be that you've got haze or fungus inside the lens and that is making the flare much worse?

I mentioned that to you in an earlier post but you didn't reply.

It's got to be worth doing?

Ernst

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[Steven]

33 minutes ago, Ernstk said:

You obviously want to make this lens work for you, that's clear from what you have posted. I'm guessing that since it's a v1 steel rim, it wouldn't have been a cheap lens.

Why don't you send it to someone reputable who can clean it and service it? It may just be that you've got haze or fungus inside the lens and that is making the flare much worse?

I mentioned that to you in an earlier post but you didn't reply.

It's got to be worth doing?

Ernst

I didn’t reply because I didn’t have an answer yet. Thanks for the advice. 

I went to Leica this morning. Herve, for those who are in paris, told me the lens looked great. But he was busy and just took a quick look. 
 

earlier tonight I went out with the lens on the sl2s and filmed the camera panning slowly around the street to try and show you the flare behavior. It’s a real disco. 
 

will try to post that soon. It’s an interesting experiment. 
 

but to be honest, I’m thinking there might be something wrong with the lens cause it’s unusable at night right now. Not just annoying. Unusable.