questions re 35mm 1.4 Summilux pre-asph

[brickftl]

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I'm in the market for this lens. I'm currently looking at 2 of them. One was made in Germany (serial number 3501259), looks like body is an 8+ or 9. Knowing this reputable seller, I’m sure the optics are all good with no scratches/fungus, etc. Price is about $3500. The other was made in Canada (serial number 2802419). Price is $2,480. Body looks like a 7 or 7+, but same seller says "optics and functions are all very nice”. 

Questions:

1. On the German one, I did an AI search on that serial number, and got an answer that it is asph, not pre asph. I trust this seller who says it’s pre asph, so I’m uncertain. Also I can’t tell from pictures, but it looks like it has a retractible hood. Did the pre-asph summilux 35/1.4 lenses have a third version with a hood?

2.  what are the differences between the Canadian and German versions? Is there a compelling reason to pay $1000 more for the German version? I don’t care at all about usage marks on the Canadian body as long as optics are good.

3. If I get one of the lenses and it turns out to front or back focus, are there good repair people (not Leica service) in the U.S. who can repair it fairly quickly, and if so about what would that cost?

4, Finally, what are the differences in terms of picture quality between this lens and Voigt 35/1.4 nokton?

Thanks for your help

Edited March 24 by brickftl

[brickftl]

I think I've answered my question number 4 above which precludes the other questions. I checked out Fred's comparison images (https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1779165/3), and I actually like the Nokton better than the summilux. Now I just need to figure out whether the Nokton is that much better than my existing nokton 35/1.5 II vintage when shot wide open.

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[ocean2059]

1. There is no retractable hood on the Summilux 35/1.4 pre-ASPH. Based on the serial number, it's a v2 Canadian version. (Don't trust the AI. It will only provide with the wrong answer)

2. The made in Germany version used different coating materials. It has a bit more contrast and saturation wide open compared with the v2. Wide open, It also flares less than that of v2.  

3. In US, you could have DAG or YYE to do a CLA service. Depend on the condition of the lens, it will be around $200 USD.

4. ...

[lct]

1.3501259 is from 1989 like my own German made Summilux 35/1.4 v2 (35015**). Not an asph lens then. 35/1.4 v2 has no retractable hood but a separate vented one # 12504.
2. Same optical design with different coatings. Less flare on the German version AFAIK. I have no experience with the Canadian version though.
3. No experience with US repair shops.
4. Depends on the Nokton 35/1.4. As far as the SC v2 is concerned, it has less glow, less coma, less flare, more sharpness and more distortion than the Summilux.
5.The Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2 is softer at full aperture than the Nokton 35/1.5 asph.

[Bo-Sixten]

My Summilux is made in Germany. I chose it mainly because of the shallower flange on the back of the lens. I was informed that the larger flange could interfere with the interior of the camera body on digital, and I intended to use it on both analog and digital. I don’t know if this is true though. Maybe worth checking. 

Edited March 25 by Bo-Sixten

[pippy]

6 hours ago, Bo-Sixten said:

...I was informed that the larger flange could interfere with the interior of the camera body on digital...I don’t know if this is true though. Maybe worth checking. 

My 1974 (ELC) v2 works perfectly well on my digi-M bodies.

As far as the OP's fourth question goes the reply written by lct in post #4 says it all in a nutshell;

"...As far as the (Nokton 35/1.4) SC v2 is concerned, it has less glow, less coma, less flare, more sharpness and more distortion than the Summilux..."

One thing which you might not have considered - nor, possibly, even care about - is why the v2 Summilux has remained so popular over the past six decades. AFAICT (from what I've read here) the main attraction of the lens (at least nowadays) is because of the way it can change its rendering-character at different apertures. It seems that it is precisely because it does glow wide-open yet sharpens-up dramatically when stopped-down which is its unique appeal in these modern (and, in comparison, relatively sterile) ASPH/APO/FLE times.

If you don't like / want this (in some respects fairly silly) amount of glow at f1.4 / f2.0 then the Voigtlander is a better bet. The only downside to the Voigt. is its barrel-distortion.

Philip.

Edited March 25 by pippy

[Sebastian S]

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would anytime prefer the german version as value should be higher over the years (fewer were made), they are the latest in the production line, so the "newest" and have the best coatings from all. many fogged samples out there and mostly they are the older ones which gives the impression that the glow is out of space, which is not with a clean version, it's quite controlable. and imho, you will never get the same look and feel imagewise with a voigtländer 35mm. they are always very close, yes - but the last little thing is somehow always missing. the 35mm preAsph is the most stunning lens i ever had in my lineup in the last 30 years, the one lens i will NEVER sell. 

[pippy]

8 minutes ago, Sebastian S said:

...many fogged samples out there and mostly they are the older ones which gives the impression that the glow is out of space, which is not with a clean version...

The pronounced 'Glow' of the 35 Summilux when used at f1.4 is due to abberations inherent in its optical design; these lenses would have exhibited 'Glow' even when new.

There has been quite a bit of sample-variation shown here over the years - concerning the amount of glow - which can differ to a considerable extent even within lenses made during the same time-frame and in the same factories; this is more often seen in the earlier years. What does seem to be a constant is that the later (German-made) lenses suffer less from flare due  to their improved coatings.

It would be important, of course, for a prospective buyer to ensure that any lens under consideration is inspected thoroughly for both Haze and Fungus.

Philip.

[lct]

•

Edited March 25 by lct

[costa43]

I have a late Canadian (1986). With it being in production for over 30 years, It’s safe to assume that glass composition and coatings changed over time, Imo, best to purchase from somewhere with a return policy but as long as the glass is clean then you are golden, the lens is a gem. A beautiful mess wide open and as sharp as you need it to be stopped down. I’ve owned the Nokton too and it is sharper wide open with less aberrations but not as sharp imo stopped down. A great lens also but for me there is something special in owning the original. It’s my favourite lens. 

[evikne]

My copy is from Canada, 1979. I am the exception who is not very enthusiastic about the very dreamy rendering wide open, so I rarely use it wider than f/2. I also don't like that the MFD is 1 meter. I love it anyway because it's so small and cool, and I really like the rendering from f/2 and narrower.

I've had a Voigtländer Nokton Classic 35/1.4 II which was much sharper wide open and had a 0.7m MFD. But there was something about the colors and rendering that I didn't quite like; it felt a kind of artificial. It was also inconvenient that I couldn't manually select the lens from the list in the camera, and it had quite a lot of distortion. Both easy to fix in post, but anyway, I sold it again very quickly. The real reason was probably that it wasn't a real Leica lens, and that thought was unbearable. 😉

[Sebastian S]

Am 26.3.2024 um 11:16 schrieb evikne:

I've had a Voigtländer Nokton Classic 35/1.4 II ..... had quite a lot of distortion. 

tbh, the distortion free and somehow "natural rendering" is the main reason for me that the summilux makes  images look so "real", as you could almost walk into the picture. the david hamilton effect at 1.4 is a bonus feature for my romantic nature that needs to be nurtured from time to time 😆i used to work for a long time with different systems, analog and then digital canons, hasselblads, fujis and some, so it's not just the FOV. this lens is unique. i could write poems to praise it 😂

[hansvons]

On 3/26/2024 at 10:16 AM, evikne said:

 

I've had a Voigtländer Nokton Classic 35/1.4 II which was much sharper wide open and had a 0.7m MFD. But there was something about the colors and rendering that I didn't quite like; it felt a kind of artificial.

Agreed. The Nokton is an impressive contender. But it renders cooler colours. I prefer the corresponding Leica lenses. However, the Nokton on film is an exemption as all the quirks are less pronounced. For its price, it's a great Steel Rim substitute.