Al Brown Posted February 6 Share #61 Posted February 6 Advertisement (gone after registration) 12 minutes ago, JohnSantaF4 said: I'm just wondering what everyone thinks would be a reasonable SL3 price, given incremental improvements, inflation, and economies of scale in manufacturing, etc We will know the 100% correct exact amount at launch and will be able to reverse engineer the math with all the variables (the labor cost, worker's wages, cost of cleaning the Wetzlar premises including floors, windows, toilets, taking out the trash, proper disposing of batteries, biohazard waste etc. after work, economies and scale of manufacturing, fees for importing parts from China, marketing expenditure, royalties for L-Mount Alliance and how all of the above is affecing profit margins to ponder on the rationality of the price. But if you ask me today, same price as SL2 would be so cool. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 6 Posted February 6 Hi Al Brown, Take a look here SL3 Rumored Price. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
SrMi Posted February 7 Share #62 Posted February 7 3 hours ago, Planetwide said: Since you asked Canon R5 Key Specs Announcement Date: 2020-07-09 45MP - Full frame CMOS Sensor ISO 100 - 51200 ( expands to 50 - 102400) Canon RF Mount Sensor-shift Image Stabilization 3.20" Fully Articulated Screen 5760k dot Electronic viewfinder 12.0fps (20.0fps Electronic) continuous shooting 8K - 8192 x 4320 video resolution 120fps High-Speed Video Built-in Wireless 738g. 138 x 98 x 88 mm Weather-sealed Body Leica SL2 Key Specs Announcement Date: 2019-11-06 47MP - Full frame CMOS Sensor No Anti-aliasing (AA) filter ISO 100 - 50000 ( expands to 50 - 50000) Leica L Mount Sensor-shift Image Stabilization 3.20" Fixed Type Screen 5760k dot Electronic viewfinder 20.0fps continuous shooting 4K (DCI) - 3840 x 2160 video resolution Built-in Wireless 835g. 146 x 107 x 42 mm Weather-sealed Body Replaced Leica SL Compare Reasons to choose Canon EOS R5 over Leica SL2 Anti-dust Shutter Mechanism YesvsNo Shutter is closed to protect the sensor LCD Screen Fully ArticulatedvsFixed Type Flexible shooting positions Max ISO 51.200vs50.000 2% higher Max ISO Number of Focus Points 5940vs225 5715 more focus points Weight 738 gvs835 g 97 g lighter Max Video Resolution 8192 x 4320vs3840 x 2160 Higher Resolution Video AE Bracketing Range ±5 EVvs±3 EV Wide Bracketing range is useful for HDR Selfie & Vlogger LCD YesvsNo Rotate LCD for taking Selfies Focus Bracketing YesvsNo Take multiple photos shifting focus point IS Stop Effectivity Up to 8.0-stopvsUp to 5.5-stop 2.5 stop more Effective Stabilization CFexpress Card Support Yes (Type vsnone Read/Write in Ultra High Speeds Animal Eye AF Tracking YesvsNo Easily lock and track focus on animals Vehicle Tracking AF YesvsNo Easily lock and track racing cars and bikes Webcam Function YesvsNo Use your camera as a Webcam Anti Flicker YesvsNo Reduced uneven color and exposure under flickering light Eye Tracking Focus YesvsNo Autofocus system locks on the eye and tracks the subject Reasons to choose Leica SL2 over Canon EOS R5 Viewfinder Magnif. 0.78xvs0.76x Larger Viewfinder Sensor Resolution 47 MPvs45 MP 4% more pixels Max Elect. Shutter 1/40000svs1/8000s faster electronic shutter Battery Life 370 shotsvs320 shots 50 more frames with a single charge Flash Sync Port YesvsNo Connect off-camera flash Full-size HDMI Port YesvsNo Use standard HDMI cables without adapters You have skipped a lot of reasons to have SL2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetwide Posted February 7 Share #63 Posted February 7 6 hours ago, SrMi said: You have skipped a lot of reasons to have SL2. I didn't skip anything in the reference that I used. But, just in case, here's the one that I used: https://cameradecision.com/compare/Leica-SL2-vs-Canon-EOS-R5 I do own the SL2 and I agree there are other reasons to own the camera. But my point was that, other camera's do bring a lot more options to the table. Whether, this is relevant to an individual is something only that individual can decide. Many on this board prefer the minimalist nature of Leica's, personally, I don't. I even missed the 4 programmable rear buttons on the original SL, and I wish that they would bring them back While it's easy to ignore, or not use features in a camera, it's very limiting if you want them and they are just not available. Again, and I stress, this is personal preference. However, I am at the point where several items will make or break it for me. Items such as a flip up screen, decent AF, better high ISO performance, better focus tools when using MF lenses are a few. We will see what the SL3 brings, along with its price point... 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUF Admin Posted February 7 Share #64 Posted February 7 I have just hidden some posts discussing if a certain term is racist or not. If you think something unappropriate was written in this forum, please report it. And do not start an off topic discussion about it. Thanks Andreas & the moderators team 3 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 7 Share #65 Posted February 7 vor 10 Stunden schrieb JohnSantaF4: I'm just wondering what everyone thinks would be a reasonable SL3 price, given incremental improvements, inflation, and economies of scale in manufacturing, etc. I believe around 6000 Euro would be reasonable, but I am afraid it will be priced somewhat higher. For me personally - we have to see what advantages it has over the SL2/ SL2-S. Is the C-AF that much improved, that I could sell my Canon and just use the SL3 for sports as well? (I kind of doubt it). Will the high ISO IQ be as good as SL2-S (or even better)? What I would really like is a 36 MP SL3-S with AF close to or as good as Canikon-sports cams. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJH Posted February 7 Share #66 Posted February 7 13 hours ago, Al Brown said: We will know the 100% correct exact amount at launch and will be able to reverse engineer the math with all the variables (the labor cost, worker's wages, cost of cleaning the Wetzlar premises including floors, windows, toilets, taking out the trash, proper disposing of batteries, biohazard waste etc. after work, economies and scale of manufacturing, fees for importing parts from China, marketing expenditure, royalties for L-Mount Alliance and how all of the above is affecing profit margins to ponder on the rationality of the price. But if you ask me today, same price as SL2 would be so cool. I agree and personally though I believe it's going to come in at about £200/$300 more than the current SL2 pricing, I don't think even Leica think it can take a bigger increase given the Sony A9III. Z8/9 and shortly the R1. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 7 Share #67 Posted February 7 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, Planetwide said: 11 hours ago, SrMi said: I didn't skip anything in the reference that I used. But, just in case, here's the one that I used: https://cameradecision.com/compare/Leica-SL2-vs-Canon-EOS-R5 That is not an unreliable and superficial source by my experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted February 7 Share #68 Posted February 7 6 hours ago, Planetwide said: I didn't skip anything in the reference that I used. But, just in case, here's the one that I used: https://cameradecision.com/compare/Leica-SL2-vs-Canon-EOS-R5 Fair enough, but that kind of check-mark comparison is rarely useful. It's like young boys comparing their parents' cars by the metric of top speed. I did that with my friends, I'm sure we weren't the only ones. So the camera that goes to ISO 51,000 is 2% better than the one that goes to ISO 50,000? The camera that has a tick for "8K" is better than the one that can do high-quality 5K all day without overheating? Don't forget that Canon had to release a separate R5c model, with a huge cooling backpack, to get the 8K to work for more than a few minutes. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetwide Posted February 7 Share #69 Posted February 7 1 hour ago, BernardC said: Fair enough, but that kind of check-mark comparison is rarely useful. It's like young boys comparing their parents' cars by the metric of top speed. I did that with my friends, I'm sure we weren't the only ones. So the camera that goes to ISO 51,000 is 2% better than the one that goes to ISO 50,000? The camera that has a tick for "8K" is better than the one that can do high-quality 5K all day without overheating? Don't forget that Canon had to release a separate R5c model, with a huge cooling backpack, to get the 8K to work for more than a few minutes. Since I own both camera's, I can tell you that most of the differences are true. The SL2, is predominantly a stills camera, with essentially useless AF for video, tracking etc... But as I said in my follow on post, it doesnt' really matter, as it is only about user preference. Leica has chosen a certain ethos (minimalism) vs say Canon/Panasonic etc... IF the camera works for you, then it's what you should buy. I own the SL2, predominantly for non of the reasons that I listed. Do I wish that it had some or all of those points, frankly yes, but I like camera's with buttons vs menu's - again a personal choice. The SL2 does slow me down, and add an M lens, and I enjoy a slower manual experience. I add an APO prime, and it's an amazing image. For my commercial work, it's all Canon. Faster, when I need it. Better integration with TS lenses when I need it, better video when I need it. And amazing zooms when I need it. Obviously your use case might be different. But we live in an age of very capable camera's from all manufacturer's and each one has its particular advantages. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 7 Share #70 Posted February 7 21 minutes ago, Planetwide said: Since I own both camera's, I can tell you that most of the differences are true. I have/had both cameras but recently sold the R5 and all Canon lenses. The list of differences is true but far from complete. You are also missing some relevant features of Canon. A spec list is not sufficient to describe the differences. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jipster Posted February 7 Share #71 Posted February 7 On 2/6/2024 at 6:34 AM, Simone_DF said: I reckon cost of labor in Japan is expensive (Sigma, Voigtlander), and cost of labor in Portugal is cheaper (Leica). Leica support is the industry’s joke. It takes months to get a repair. Don’t know about Sony, but Canon’s service is top notch and fast. Does Canon repair 50 years old lenses and bodies? I don't think you quite get what it takes to support for years bodies and lenses. The time it takes is simply a question of size. Which of course is also a reason for costs. But hey keep believing that Leica overcharge. No skin off my back. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted February 7 Share #72 Posted February 7 57 minutes ago, Jipster said: But hey keep believing that Leica overcharge. Yup. I honestly believe Leica camera and lenses are way overpriced, even though I own a SL2-S and a bunch of Leica lenses. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 7 Share #73 Posted February 7 The last percent of quality is always a magnitude more expensive. You are not only paying for the lens, although it being handmade in an expensive country does not make it cheap to build, you are also paying for Leica not applying cost restraints to optical glass and for precision machining of the mechanical mount to the narrowest possible tolerances. And not to forget: a lens design archive containing the work of some of the most brilliant optical engineers ever, dating back 175 years. As for cameras, Leica prices reflect a small series premium. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted February 7 Share #74 Posted February 7 7 minutes ago, jaapv said: As for cameras, Leica prices reflect a small series premium. Yes, but a good chunk of the premium price is more related to Leica’s position as a luxury/lifestyle brand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 7 Share #75 Posted February 7 If that were true, their balance sheet would show excessive profits. They are doing well, in fact better than ever, but nothing crazy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted February 7 Share #76 Posted February 7 On 2/6/2024 at 6:34 AM, Simone_DF said: Don’t know about Sony, but Canon’s service is top notch and fast. Canon Professional Services (CPS) is indeed quite good, but it's an extra-cost service. You need to own a minimum number of their current professional bodies and lenses to qualify. If you don't qualify/pay for CPS, you'll be in the same boat as everybody else. A local pro had a 1Dx with them for months, because she didn't own enough L lenses to jump the queue. I think she ended-up buying a new body and selling the repaired body when it finally came back. Sony's US repair services were a source of complaints on the old LensRentals blog, I don't know if that's been resolved, or what the situation is in other markets. At the time, the blog claimed that it wasn't worth it for them to send stuff to Sony, but keep in mind that they could do some sophisticated repairs in-house. There was a lot of talk a few years ago about Nikon shutting-out all independent repair services in the US. Hasselblad closed their New Jersey repair facility last year, which is unfortunate because they were excellent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotium Posted February 7 Share #77 Posted February 7 33 minutes ago, jaapv said: If that were true, their balance sheet would show excessive profits. They are doing well, in fact better than ever, but nothing crazy. Do you have a source? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 7 Share #78 Posted February 7 I can all be found on the Internet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotium Posted February 7 Share #79 Posted February 7 31 minutes ago, jaapv said: I can all be found on the Internet. Do you know of any *reliable* sources? If they are not publicly traded they presumably have no reporting requirements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 7 Share #80 Posted February 7 You can find plenty of reliable sources on the internet. Even if Leica is not traded, they do release press statements vv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.