Disappointed with SL3

[SoCalLeicanator]

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On 3/13/2024 at 7:23 PM, davidmknoble said:

A final aside on the lens discussions.  Remember that the Leica SL lenses are sealed - sand and water.  I use them in pretty harsh conditions and have not had them fail.  The sigmas and panasonics are weather resistent.  It is different.

Either way, the best camera and lens is one you go out and shoot images with!

Sorry to troll, but this is only partially true.  The Panasonic S-Series (what Leica co-opted for the Summicrons) are known for their weather sealing.  Likewise, the Sigma ART lenses are also weather sealed.  The Sigma "i" series only has the seal at the mount.  I got here late, but really the OP needs to stack a Sigma 35 1.4 against the GM not the rebranded Panasonic to make a true comparison IMO.  The Sigma is a little cheaper too I believe. . . 

[eab]

9 hours ago, goodbokeh said:

eab, I also have the Sony 35 GM and the A1 & A7R5. I don't know what your lens testing protocols were, but unless the SL3 was on a tripod and using ES your APO SL 35 may not be showing you everything it's got in the tank.

Hi Goodbokeh, 

That is exactly what I was expecting.  I did test on a tripod, with a bookcase as the target and IS ( i think is what you meant by ES, if it wasn’t I don’t know what ES is) on.  Honestly I was wondering if there is any sample variation with the APOs, I suspect not but I was wondering.  I also have the M 35 APO ( one of my favorite travel lenses on the M11) but I did not compare it. 

I think I need to retest at some point but I am going on a trip and trying to sort out what to bring ….  I really don't enjoy shooting the Sony and the images, although technically very good just seem meh. We are going to the Amazon and I am afraid I will get insect repellant on the Lecias:(  So maybe I should sacrifice the Sony gear!   Any how thanks for the comment, I will retest when we get back.

 

 

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[davidmknoble]

42 minutes ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

Sorry to troll, but this is only partially true.  The Panasonic S-Series (what Leica co-opted for the Summicrons) are known for their weather sealing.  Likewise, the Sigma ART lenses are also weather sealed.  The Sigma "i" series only has the seal at the mount.  I got here late, but really the OP needs to stack a Sigma 35 1.4 against the GM not the rebranded Panasonic to make a true comparison IMO.  The Sigma is a little cheaper too I believe. . . 

No, good discussion!  Here is something I posted showing the descriptions of the Sigma lenses from their website and instructions.  They are weather resistant, they have rubber seals at the lens mount, but that is all.  Leica has rubber rings on all of the openings in the lenses, very different.  I rinse mine off with a hose after shooting on the coast.  I would not ever do that with a Sigma.

 

[davidmknoble]

Again, on the Sigma Art lenses, this is from the 14mm 2.8 Sigma Art lens manual:

• This lens is not waterproof. When you use the lens in the rain or near water, keep it from getting wet. It is often impractical to repair the internal mechanism, lens elements and electric components damaged by water.

 

[davidmknoble]

@SoCalLeicanator, I did look at the Luminx S series lenses for the L mount.  And the Pro series says this:

• Dust/splash/freeze-resistant design withstands use under harsh conditions for high mobility

Which fits what I would say is similar to the Leica SL lenses.  The 50mm f/1.4 Pro Luminix S lens, not an APO lens, is $2,299 USD.  That is similar to the non APO Leica SL lenses (35, 50). 

However the basic Panasonic S series lenses are not sealed like this and run much less.  The Luminix S 50mm f/1.8 lens is $449 USD.  That lens is not weather sealed.

So, Panasonic offers a much higher cost lens series that is listed as weather ‘resistent’ and might be much better sealed.

You ultimately get what you pay for and I have shot the Leica SL and S lenses in rainstorms, snow and ice and sand and salt.  I have done this for 5 years with no lens ever failing.

So, my point is, the SL lenses are well sealed - the other brands of L lenses are not as well sealed and they tell you that.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

59 minutes ago, eab said:

Hi Goodbokeh, 

That is exactly what I was expecting.  I did test on a tripod, with a bookcase as the target and IS ( i think is what you meant by ES, if it wasn’t I don’t know what ES is) on.  Honestly I was wondering if there is any sample variation with the APOs, I suspect not but I was wondering.  I also have the M 35 APO ( one of my favorite travel lenses on the M11) but I did not compare it. 

I think I need to retest at some point but I am going on a trip and trying to sort out what to bring ….  I really don't enjoy shooting the Sony and the images, although technically very good just seem meh. We are going to the Amazon and I am afraid I will get insect repellant on the Lecias:(  So maybe I should sacrifice the Sony gear!   Any how thanks for the comment, I will retest when we get back.

 

 

ES is electronic shutter. And you should have Is turned off for tripod use. 

Gordon

[eab]

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1 hour ago, Hendo said:

So in your opinion the Sony 35 GM is as good as the APO SL 35 mm? Well, thats quite amazing. 

Well that is not exactly what I said.  I said I thought the 35GM was as sharp if not a tad sharper.  I prefer the overall image produced by the APO but when I was pixel peeping I believe it was as sharp. I am happy to be wrong as I would love to ditch every piece of Sony gear I own.

[eab]

38 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

ES is electronic shutter. And you should have Is turned off for tripod use. 

Gordon

Hi Gordon,

I actually think I left is on when shooting the APO 35 on the tripod so I should retest now that you mention it. I was also testing the Sigma 100-400 and I turned off the optical stabilization when it was on the tripod but I did not turn off the in-body stabilization.  When you shoot the 100-400 on a tripod do you also turn off the in-body?  

On the same note when I was testing the 100-400 i turned on the ES as I read a few times that there was some shutter slap ( at least on the SL2 ).   The only problem with that is if I am shooting a BIF the sensor readout is too slow and things start looking funny…. 

[Planetwide]

Anybody looking for a Panasonic 50mm F1.4, I looked at this the other day in person, and it looks new.

https://www.cameracanada.com/products/productDetail.aspx?pid=SX50ConsAG

[LocalHero1953]

IBIS and OIS should both be switched off for any tripod use (I believe some cameras can sense when they're on a tripod and turn it off automatically). I made the mistake once of trying to shoot a distant building with the 90-280 on a tripod and OIS left on (the camera was the SL601, which has no IBIS): I could see the focus point randomly drifting across the screen.

[Stuart Richardson]

7 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

IBIS and OIS should both be switched off for any tripod use (I believe some cameras can sense when they're on a tripod and turn it off automatically). I made the mistake once of trying to shoot a distant building with the 90-280 on a tripod and OIS left on (the camera was the SL601, which has no IBIS): I could see the focus point randomly drifting across the screen.

I have made the mistake of not turning it off for night photos, and you can see from the star trails that the sensor is bouncing around very slightly. And yes, it can be a bit awkward to zoom in or move around the frame with a long telephoto when it is on and you are using a tripod. The focus point and frame movies around in a slightly motion sickness inducing kind of way.

[eab]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

IBIS and OIS should both be switched off for any tripod use (I believe some cameras can sense when they're on a tripod and turn it off automatically). I made the mistake once of trying to shoot a distant building with the 90-280 on a tripod and OIS left on (the camera was the SL601, which has no IBIS): I could see the focus point randomly drifting across the screen.

Thank you, thank you, I saw this the other day and I had no idea why it was happening! I have been into photography as a hobby for a number of years now and I am still learning, which I think is why I like it.  

Thanks again.  

[BernardC]

10 hours ago, eab said:

Well that is not exactly what I said.  I said I thought the 35GM was as sharp if not a tad sharper.  I prefer the overall image produced by the APO but when I was pixel peeping I believe it was as sharp.

That's the problem with pixel peeping. You are looking at software-optimized details, at a magnification that no one else will ever see unless you display your images zoomed-in to 400%, a few pixels at a time.

If you prefer the overall image from one lens, I would say that it has passed the test. No need to see what it's doing at the molecular level, that's mostly digital noise.

[algrove]

21 hours ago, eab said:

Hi Goodbokeh, 

That is exactly what I was expecting.  I did test on a tripod, with a bookcase as the target and IS ( i think is what you meant by ES, if it wasn’t I don’t know what ES is) on.  Honestly I was wondering if there is any sample variation with the APOs, I suspect not but I was wondering.  I also have the M 35 APO ( one of my favorite travel lenses on the M11) but I did not compare it. 

I think I need to retest at some point but I am going on a trip and trying to sort out what to bring ….  I really don't enjoy shooting the Sony and the images, although technically very good just seem meh. We are going to the Amazon and I am afraid I will get insect repellant on the Lecias:(  So maybe I should sacrifice the Sony gear!   Any how thanks for the comment, I will retest when we get back.

Surely you don't need insect repellant in an Amazon warehouse.😉

 

 

[algrove]

@eab

Do you go into Manaus? Obrigado.

[eab]

10 hours ago, algrove said:

@eab

Do you go into Manaus? Obrigado.

Yes, we are driving a camper from Suriname, to Cusco via Manaus and the BR319.  I just posted a question in the M11 forum wondering if it makes any sense  bringing my M11 as a backup camera system and using some of the M lenses on the SL.  If I am lucky I will be able to manage a 15 def Fahrenheit differential between the camper body and outside so I am not too concerned about that or, should I be?  I was more concerned with the high humidity soaking of the entire system, body and senses?  I you have any thoughts on this I would appreciate it. 

[LeicaR10]

Eab,  My many years of photography in all hostile environments to include the jungles and tropics with S, SL and  M cameras and lenses, I suggest you get a cooler and ziplock bags to do two things.  The first, minimize the temperature change between your camper and outside temperature and humidity.  The large difference in temperature and humidity can cause moisture to build up on the lenses and even the sensors when going from a cold camper to the outside.  Second, the reverse is true.  Going from hot and humid to cold.  Another good work around is NOT keep the camper at 15 degrees difference.  Keep it at about 5 degree difference.  You will still be cool inside, humidity lower and yet not have to worry as much going in/out of the vehicle.  The same goes for shooting in cold weather.  I always have a cooler and ziplock bags for my SL and M gear.  If you go from a warm motel room to the cold and snow, you risk getting moisture freeze in the inside of individual lenses and cameras.  You should put some desiccant packs in the ziplock bags to keep the humidity low, especially at night.  r/ Mark

PS  I use these type products for climate control for my gear.

Try:  https://medium.com/@damienreen/5-ways-to-stop-humidity-from-getting-into-packages-and-containers-6e4d4d082c7c

[eab]

Thank you for the suggestions.  I need to get some desiccant.  Not sure about the temperature differential in the camper.  I like it cool:). I was warned 

[algrove]

On 3/12/2024 at 4:45 PM, Nedward said:

I've just received my SL3 and tested the 35mm and 50mm ASPH lenses, comparing both to Sony A7R5 and 35mm and 50mm G Masters. The lenses simply don't stand up to the Sony and as the whole reasoning behind buying Leica, for me is to experience the pinnacle of image quality, it looks like I'm gonna have to go down the APO route. Really thinking to myself, can I justify that..!

Also TBH, I'm not that impressed with the camera either, yes it's beautiful in hand and all the rest but first thing I notice is the shutter black out also the live view seems not really live until you depress the shutter half way and first impressions are it's a bit noisy at even quite low IOS (this remains to be really tested although). 

I know these are not going to be popular views here buy honestly Im thinking of returning it and sticking with my Sony and Q3. I love the brand etc but wondering is this just me or should I give it time.

I love this post as it might mean less will want the SL3 so I can get my second one faster. Thanks.

 

 

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[algrove]

On 3/15/2024 at 7:54 PM, SoCalLeicanator said:

Sorry to troll, but this is only partially true.  The Panasonic S-Series (what Leica co-opted for the Summicrons) are known for their weather sealing.  Likewise, the Sigma ART lenses are also weather sealed.  The Sigma "i" series only has the seal at the mount.  I got here late, but really the OP needs to stack a Sigma 35 1.4 against the GM not the rebranded Panasonic to make a true comparison IMO.  The Sigma is a little cheaper too I believe. . . 

I had a friend who bought many Sigma lenses and even though they were just fine AFA sharpness, they were big and heavy compared to either Leica or Panasonic lenses of the same FL. That said no high quality SL lens is light.