SL3 Rumors

[LocalHero1953]

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3 hours ago, BernardC said:

Sure, what would you like to know?

I used to work with one of the top wedding photographers in Canada, we did tons of 12+ hour days together over the course of a decade. I don't want to speak for her, but I can say that a) you would consider her to be a smaller-than-average woman, and b) she prefers cameras with substantial grips and a decent heft.

Her camera history includes various MD-11 and MD-12 Nikons, Pentax 6x7s, EOS 1D-to-1DX, and then the SL. I stopped doing that type of work in 2019 (which was good timing, given what happened the next year), but I really doubt that she's switched to a dainty camera. It's not an accessory, it's a working tool. You need something to wrap your hand around, otherwise your hand will cramp-up before mid-day.

Speaking for myself, I appreciate a smaller camera when I'm just "walking around." I loved the EOS-M and took it all over the world, but I would never use it for a job. A camera can be too small to be used comfortably. That's why I think that Leica should release a smaller L-mount camera to replace the CL, but that the top model should keep its present size.

I'm not saying you're wrong about size, and a good photographer female friend is an ex-news videographer who prefers big meaty cameras as well. But as a species women's hands tend to be smaller than men's, and the talkative and opinionated side of the profession for the last 50 years has been predominantly male. I know other women (my wife and three daughters for a start*) who consider the SL size of camera to be unthinkable and just wouldn't touch it.

I would prefer smaller and lighter, but I've lived with the SL and SL2-S for their qualities, and can continue to do so. Reduced size & weight are not at the top of my wish list for a SL3. 

 

* OK, they also happen to be opinionated as well.

Edited February 5, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[hansvons]

8 hours ago, BernardC said:

That's why I think that Leica should release a smaller L-mount camera to replace the CL, but that the top model should keep its present size.

Agreed, especially with the last part.

On the other hand, the walk-around type of camera is well addressed with the Q line. The Q3 will likely be even more useful in that regard, as chances are high that the M11's 60MP sensor will find its way into the Q3, allowing for even better cropping.

There should be an SL3 and an SL3-S. The SL3 will sport the same 60 MP sensor, and the SL3-S will have a 24MP sensor as this is the sweet spot for video (as we already have it with the new S5 MKII). This will, even more, distinguish both models from each other. But they will share the same body in a similar but upgraded design, upgraded EVF,  a new articulated screen etc. And I suspect both cameras will be released simultaneously, more or less.

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[Kristofferpaulsen]

I remember when I had a Sony A7Rii, and the ridiculous "play memories home" ecosystem was a dumpster fire.. I could never get it to log in, albeit the additional apps looked kinda cool. 

The Leica thing is all about slick, so I can't imagine them PC-izing their beautiful menus etc.. 

 

However.. what I'd like to see, as a professional.. is

1. Better AF.

2. Bigger buffer, and CFast cards, like the Canon R5. IMO the buffer, and restriction of being stuck with SD cards is the achillies heel with this camera.. The buffer is SO TINY, and if you ever try use the high speed drive mode it fills up in barely anytime at all, as opposed to the Canon R5 that can seemingly shoot forever.

3. WIFI 6 for wireless tethering. As soon as camera companies start putting wifi6 that works properly on their cameras, it's going to be a GAME CHANGER for tethering.. Imagine wireless tethering that actually works, and is actually a usable speed??

4. USB 3.2 on the USB port.. Remove the bottleneck that exists when we tether.. Theoretically 20Gbps transfer speed that can actually keep up with those huge DNG files. 

5. A raw video codec? (I'm not a video guy.. idk..)

As far as resolution goes, 50 is fine IMO, but I guess it'll get an upgrade from the M11.. sure..

[Simone_DF]

10 hours ago, Kristofferpaulsen said:

I remember when I had a Sony A7Rii, and the ridiculous "play memories home" ecosystem was a dumpster fire.. I could never get it to log in, albeit the additional apps looked kinda cool. 

It worked for me, but it was really really clunky. The biggest problem was launching time. You had to delve in into the menu and launch the app, in the same way you do it on a smartphone, but the operation was slow due to the AR7II chip not being powerful enough. The apps themselves were useful, more or less. I tried only the free ones. 

[Kristofferpaulsen]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

It worked for me, but it was really really clunky. The biggest problem was launching time. You had to delve in into the menu and launch the app, in the same way you do it on a smartphone, but the operation was slow due to the AR7II chip not being powerful enough. The apps themselves were useful, more or less. I tried only the free ones. 

interesting!!! I'm not opposed to the idea of add on apps in a camera at all.. if it was done well that could be incredible.. We can see already the power of third party developers designing software that unlocks capabilities even the manufacturer didn't even envisage..

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, Kristofferpaulsen said:

interesting!!! I'm not opposed to the idea of add on apps in a camera at all.. if it was done well that could be incredible.. We can see already the power of third party developers designing software that unlocks capabilities even the manufacturer didn't even envisage..

Except when it becomes an excuse to spill more money from customers. Why have features like multishot for free when you can charge customers an extra 10€ to download an app?

But luckily we have an extremely competitive market, so it’s a DOA idea. 

[Kristofferpaulsen]

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7 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Except when it becomes an excuse to spill more money from customers. Why have features like multishot for free when you can charge customers an extra 10€ to download an app?

But luckily we have an extremely competitive market, so it’s a DOA idea. 

oh for sure.. i mean more opening it up for people who are potentially smarter than leica...

[Ken Abrahams]

I’m not up with the science but it seemed Nikon were having issues with phase detection on their Z7. The banding issues led a good landscape photographer friend of mine to sell his Z gear and revert back to D850. Much of his work involves shadow foregrounds of sunrises and sun sets where squeezing every bit of dynamic range in the scene was paramount. 
 

I would love to see the specs for the proposed SL3s but I believe that would be some time after the SL3 release? 
 

K

[Telecaster]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Ken Abrahams:

I would love to see the specs for the proposed SL3s but I believe that would be some time after the SL3 release? 

I assume Leica will launch the higher priced model first. Thats how it was done for the SL2 / S.

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, Telecaster said:

I assume Leica will launch the higher priced model first. Thats how it was done for the SL2 / S.

That's my guess as well. Panasonic premiered the mainstream 24MP model, so Leica should premiere the high-res model.

[Telecaster]

Exactly! Also will be interesting to see how the Panasonic and Leica models match and where they are different.

Panasonic autofocus seems to be competitive now with other brands - if that's true for the Leica version I might add an SL to my arsenal...

[SrMi]

My main wish for SL3 remains a sensor that has similar high ISO characteristics as SL2-S. 

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Telecaster:

Exactly! Also will be interesting to see how the Panasonic and Leica models match and where they are different.

Panasonic autofocus seems to be competitive now with other brands - if that's true for the Leica version I might add an SL to my arsenal...

The sensor implementation even if the sensor is based on the same sensor architecture will differ and show a difference in ISO performance and pushed shadows noise. 

[trickness]

47 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

The sensor implementation even if the sensor is based on the same sensor architecture will differ and show a difference in ISO performance and pushed shadows noise. 

Really hope the noise is a lot better in the SL3, it's really too much for my taste even at 1600 w/SL2

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

My main wish for SL3 remains a sensor that has similar high ISO characteristics as SL2-S. 

Might be asking a bit too much considering it will most likely have the M11's 60mp sensor. The increased processing power of the SL3 might allow for slightly better results, but probably not by much. Such performance will be good enough for most but will still fall a little short of the SL2-S for high ISO.

[hdmesa]

13 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

I’m not up with the science but it seemed Nikon were having issues with phase detection on their Z7. The banding issues led a good landscape photographer friend of mine to sell his Z gear and revert back to D850. Much of his work involves shadow foregrounds of sunrises and sun sets where squeezing every bit of dynamic range in the scene was paramount. 
 

I would love to see the specs for the proposed SL3s but I believe that would be some time after the SL3 release? 
 

K

Most all manufactures have been able to solve PDAF-induced banding effects via firmware updates.

[SrMi]

13 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Might be asking a bit too much considering it will most likely have the M11's 60mp sensor. The increased processing power of the SL3 might allow for slightly better results, but probably not by much. Such performance will be good enough for most but will still fall a little short of the SL2-S for high ISO.

M11 is very close to SL2-S performance. I did post a comparison a while ago:

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by SrMi

[hdmesa]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

M11 is very close to SL2-S performance. I did post a comparison a while ago.

It probably is close enough if you're ok with limiting the M11 to same resolution as the SL2-S. That is the standard for comparisons, but in real world use, I own a high res camera to use it at full resolution.

M11 at ISO 2000 (CV 50 f/1 wide open):

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

High resolution 24x36 format cameras really haven't improved noise wise in years. I think the A7R3 was the last camera that had a bump on it's predecessor. Look at the A7R5. No sensor upgrade at all. The A7RIV had no noise improvements over the mkIII . What we are getting is small bumps in resolution with little if any noise penalty and deeper faster buffers and processors to remove some speed bottlenecks.

That said I think the SL3 will have a modified PDAF version of the M11 sensor. Seems logical to match the resolution but keep some room for a future S. No one else looks like more than 61MP soon(ish).

Downsampling a high resolution sensor pretty much matches a lower MP sensor anyway.....

Gordon

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Look here: Leica L-Mount

[albireo_double]

My main wish is that whatever they do, they don't change the rendering of skin tones from SL/SL2. I had some weird problems with a M10R, with skin tones coming out like a mix of orange and brown. Never any issues with SL601/SL2. Better AFC will be great even if the SL2 has been fast and accurate enough for portraits/people shoots after face/eye recognition was implemented last year. Wireless tethering to iPad would also be very helpful. Phocus Mobile 2 has been working with the Hasselblad X2D since a few days ago and the fast tethering to iPad over wifi - previews only, raw files stay in camera - has been an eye-opener.