SL3 Rumors

[Simone_DF]

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Folks, Leica had tried this before and it didn't work out. Remember the Leica app for iPad subscription plan fiasco? 50€ per year for the privilege of using one of the worst apps ever made on a tablet? How long did it last? 4 months? 5 months?

Sony also tried something similar with the A7RII and earlier models, an "app store" for the A7 series with additional apps, some free, some paid. It was incredibly clunky a la Sony, and it was another fail.

Long story short: photographers won't buy additional software features for their hardware. It's a model that doesn't work. 

[Stuart Richardson]

5 hours ago, kobra said:

To play devils advocate here...

The devil doesn't need any more advocates in the world we live in.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[trickness]

The “pay for software features” would be a huge mistake and probably put a fatal dent in the viability of the SL series, which already faces stiff competition from other brands. 
 

Keep it simple and stick to what this camera already does well, and iterate to improve, which Leica as a brand does better than anyone.

[BernardC]

18 hours ago, Telecaster said:

I know many people like the current size because of the ergonomics, but I think SL3 should be a bit smaller.

The SL3 should be the same size as the SL2 and SL. That's because it's the right size for most adult human hands. It's not a coincidence that almost every 35mm film SLR made in the last 70 years was around the same size...

That being said, I think that Leica will release a smaller camera to be sold alongside the SL3. It will sort-of replace the CL in the lineup, albeit with a full-frame sensor.

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, trickness said:

The “pay for software features” would be a huge mistake and probably put a fatal dent in the viability of the SL series, which already faces stiff competition from other brands. 

Here's one reason why they won't do that: it would decimate resale values overnight. Why would you pay a premium for a used Leica if the person selling does not effectively own it?

Lower resale means that they can't charge as much for new cameras. That starts a death spiral where selling prices tank, sales tank, and everyone is mad at them. That's fine for public companies who's executives are only interested in yearly bonuses, but it's not a good long-term strategy.

[Chaemono]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb BernardC:

[…]

That being said, I think that Leica will release a smaller camera to be sold alongside the SL3. It will sort-of replace the CL in the lineup, albeit with a full-frame sensor.

And satisfy those who are clamoring for an M with an EVF. Brilliant. Kill three birds with one stone. Keep the M as a pure rangefinder, offer the second best option to use M lenses with an EVF and similar size/weight as an M, and offer a smaller option for SL primes. 

[robb]

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I definitely don’t need or want a smaller body but could see it as a benefit to many especially using with M lenses.

I do think it’s likely Leica will release one.

Robb

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by robb

[John Smith]

33 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

And satisfy those who are clamoring for an M with an EVF. Brilliant. Kill three birds with one stone. Keep the M as a pure rangefinder, offer the second best option to use M lenses with an EVF and similar size/weight as an M, and offer a smaller option for SL primes. 

I might be wrong, but I don't see that happening. The M is too small for IBIS, but it is still heavy. A smaller SL-like camera will involve too many compromises like a not-so-great EVF, dumbed down video, etc. And for what? A smidgen of size and weight? I think Leica got the SL2 right. Hope they don't change a thing on the body, except it'd be nice if the back LCD and buttons were inlaid like the Q2's.

[tangosix]

 

 

Substantial increase in sensor power and dynamic range, while still maintaining those colors I love.   

Phase detection AF - or any increases in AF

Higher Rez EVF

Internal Memory - What a life saver when you forget a card. 

C-Port that actually charges

 

[Stuart Richardson]

12 minutes ago, John Smith said:

I might be wrong, but I don't see that happening. The M is too small for IBIS, but it is still heavy. A smaller SL-like camera will involve too many compromises like a not-so-great EVF, dumbed down video, etc. And for what? A smidgen of size and weight? I think Leica got the SL2 right. Hope they don't change a thing on the body, except it'd be nice if the back LCD and buttons were inlaid like the Q2's.

I think if they can fit IBIS in the Ricoh GRIII, which crams an aps-c sensor in a camera not much bigger than a pack of cards, they can fit it in an M. Leica has a bit of a history saying things can’t be done, until they do them. For example, a digital rangefinder. They claimed for a few years that a digital rangefinder was not possible, until they released the M8. Whether they will do it is another story. They certainly could fit a stabilized sensor in a smaller L mount body…just look at the S5 or Sony cameras. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[LocalHero1953]

4 hours ago, BernardC said:

The SL3 should be the same size as the SL2 and SL. That's because it's the right size for most adult human hands. It's not a coincidence that almost every 35mm film SLR made in the last 70 years was around the same size...

My amendment. Discuss

[Simone_DF]

5 hours ago, John Smith said:

A smaller SL-like camera will involve too many compromises like a not-so-great EVF, dumbed down video, etc. 

Pure FUD.

The Sonys are smaller and don't have any of the compromises you list. The A7RV has a 9.44M dots EVF, while the SL2 has a 5.76M EVF.

Same for the S5II, it's smaller and has no dumbed down video, quite the opposite. The S5II EVF is only 3.68, but that has more to do with the entry level price point set for the camera rather than the size.

[John Smith]

6 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Pure FUD.

The Sonys are smaller and don't have any of the compromises you list. The A7RV has a 9.44M dots EVF, while the SL2 has a 5.76M EVF.

Same for the S5II, it's smaller and has no dumbed down video, quite the opposite. The S5II EVF is only 3.68, but that has more to do with the entry level price point set for the camera rather than the size.

I guess it matters what kinds of compromises you are willing to swallow. Both the Sony and Lumix are thicker than the SL2 according to the camerasize site. Weight probably involves different materials. Besides, the weight difference is only 10–13%. And then there is the Sony knuckle pain. 

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Edited February 5, 2023 by John Smith

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, John Smith said:

I guess it matters what kinds of compromises you are willing to swallow. Both the Sony and Lumix are thicker than the SL2 according to the camerasize site. Weight probably involves different materials. Besides, the weight difference is only 10–13%. And then there is the Sony knuckle pain. 

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The weight and dimensions of SL2 are incorrect. The weight with battery is 920g. SL2's dimensions are 157mm x 107.5mm x 82.3 mm (link).
However, the main advantage of the Sony system is not the small body size. Many complain about it and must buy the grip to handle it properly, but it works for me. Instead, the Sony system's main advantage are the small, light, high-quality lenses. Once you carry several lenses with you, the weight and size of the lenses matter more than the body's weight and size.

[Simone_DF]

4 hours ago, John Smith said:

I guess it matters what kinds of compromises you are willing to swallow. Both the Sony and Lumix are thicker than the SL2 according to the camerasize site. Weight probably involves different materials. Besides, the weight difference is only 10–13%. And then there is the Sony knuckle pain. 

Why don't you show the whole picture? The SL is slimmer, but it's larger and taller. The weight difference is substantial, more in the 15-18% range since the SL2 with battery is 920g, not 835g which is the weight without battery.

And anyway, this doesn't change my point, that a smaller camera doesn't have to compromise on EVF or IBIS, and has no "dumbed down" video, which is what you wrote in your initial post.

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[RBB]

Same body please 🙏

Same size battery, so fit the old camera's, maybe mk2 battery with more power, other brands get more juice out similar size.

And no "pay for software features”, would be killing voor the SL 

[BernardC]

18 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

My amendment. Discuss

Sure, what would you like to know?

I used to work with one of the top wedding photographers in Canada, we did tons of 12+ hour days together over the course of a decade. I don't want to speak for her, but I can say that a) you would consider her to be a smaller-than-average woman, and b) she prefers cameras with substantial grips and a decent heft.

Her camera history includes various MD-11 and MD-12 Nikons, Pentax 6x7s, EOS 1D-to-1DX, and then the SL. I stopped doing that type of work in 2019 (which was good timing, given what happened the next year), but I really doubt that she's switched to a dainty camera. It's not an accessory, it's a working tool. You need something to wrap your hand around, otherwise your hand will cramp-up before mid-day.

Speaking for myself, I appreciate a smaller camera when I'm just "walking around." I loved the EOS-M and took it all over the world, but I would never use it for a job. A camera can be too small to be used comfortably. That's why I think that Leica should release a smaller L-mount camera to replace the CL, but that the top model should keep its present size.

[kobra]

I'm wondering if the CL body could be modified to use the new FF sensor (or at least be the starting point for a new, alternatively smaller, SL model)?

The tech of today was not possible even 5 years ago; for example that when the Fuji X-T3 came out, Fuji made the statement that they could not put IBIS in that smaller body so that's why the X-H1 was so much larger. But, about 3 years later, the tech of that time allowed IBIS in a body just slightly larger in the X-T4, and now the X-T5 has the newest sensor tech with IBIS, and all in a body that is smaller than the X-T3. I believe that many of the things Leica has deemed impossible, were indeed impossible with the technology of the time; but others have already shown that once impossible things are now possible as technology marches forward. 

I think a body with a similar form factor and size-ish of the CL -while using a FF sensor- would be a killer combination. Oh, and of course upgrade the EVF and other necessary luxury upgrades  

 

Brad

 

[hdmesa]

Disruptive thought: Are we going to also get a V2 of the SL lenses with faster AF motors – perhaps even a Hasselblad XCD-style redesign to include a physical aperture ring and clutch-style manual focus ring? Every SL lens is currently out of stock on the Leica USA online store.

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Disruptive thought: Are we going to also get a V2 of the SL lenses with faster AF motors – perhaps even a Hasselblad XCD-style redesign to include a physical aperture ring and clutch-style manual focus ring? Every SL lens is currently out of stock on the Leica USA online store.

Leica could start to rebadge the Sigma primes