Disappointed with SL3

[Jeff S]

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6 hours ago, Photoworks said:

It was just out of warranty by a few months.

Did you go through a good dealer for repair?

Jeff

[SrMi]

Lens updates can be a bit tricky. If you mount the lens that needs updating and are in EVF extended mode, you will not see the "Updating Lens" message on the LCD. You might think that the camera is locked up and may try to unmount and remount the lens. What happens if you do that while the lens is being updated?

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[beewee]

24 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Lens updates can be a bit tricky. If you mount the lens that needs updating and are in EVF extended mode, you will not see the "Updating Lens" message on the LCD. You might think that the camera is locked up and may try to unmount and remount the lens. What happens if you do that while the lens is being updated?

A good software engineer that is worth their salt will write a bootloader that is fail safe in such a scenario.

1. Copy existing FW image to reserved backup area of NVM before flashing and perform integrity check of this backup
2. Load incoming new FW image to RAM or separate reserved NVM area, check the integrity of the incoming FW image and authenticate it to ensure it is legitimate
3. Once verified save new image to main image area in NVM
4. Boot into new FW
5. If FW is corrupted, copy existing original FW image back from reserved area to main image area to recover and get back to the old image
6. Repeat #5 as many times as needed

[beewee]

7 hours ago, Nedward said:

Thanks for that, yes I am super confident that the APOs are outstanding and tbh I just can’t ever see myself using Sigma/ Panasonic or other glass on a Leica so it’s just a case of running a few numbers, factoring in a couple of APO lenses. I guess I can live with the black out, slow frame rate and mostly I’m an af single shot user, I can live with that too. Coming down to budget again I guess…

I can’t speak for Panasonic lenses but Sigma makes some pretty high quality lenses. Their Art series lenses are up there with many first party top-end lenses on the market, except the Leica APO SL lenses. Having done controlled testing, I can say that the Sigma 14-24 DG DN performs as well as the 16-35 SL zoom.

If you are only concerned about absolute optical performance, then the only reason to get into the L-mount system is the APO SL primes. The APO SL primes are on another level as others have mentioned. 

However, even looking beyond optical performance, I shoot with an SL body because I like the thoughtfully laid out camera interface. Moreover, moving across the SL, M, and Q feels natural. Every now and then, I get tempted to look at Fujifilm cameras, then I see the hodgepodge of different font sizes and weights in the menu and I can feel my blood pressure go up. I look at every other camera body from Japan and my eyes glaze over looking at the buttons shotgunned across the entire backside of the camera. Hasselblad bodies look tempting but then the terrible AF is a dealbreaker. I then take a step back and realize that going with Leica was the right choice for me.

[SrMi]

21 minutes ago, beewee said:

A good software engineer that is worth their salt will write a bootloader that is fail safe in such a scenario.

1. Copy existing FW image to reserved backup area of NVM before flashing and perform integrity check of this backup
2. Load incoming new FW image to RAM or separate reserved NVM area, check the integrity of the incoming FW image and authenticate it to ensure it is legitimate
3. Once verified save new image to main image area in NVM
4. Boot into new FW
5. If FW is corrupted, copy existing original FW image back from reserved area to main image area to recover and get back to the old image
6. Repeat #5 as many times as needed

Still, every computer or camera manufacturer strongly advises against turning the power off or removing the battery during an update. I assume every camera with its battery removed during the update will be bricked.

[MakinMemories]

8 hours ago, Nedward said:

I've just received my SL3 and tested the 35mm and 50mm ASPH lenses, comparing both to Sony A7R5 and 35mm and 50mm G Masters. The lenses simply don't stand up to the Sony and as the whole reasoning behind buying Leica, for me is to experience the pinnacle of image quality, it looks like I'm gonna have to go down the APO route. Really thinking to myself, can I justify that..!

Also TBH, I'm not that impressed with the camera either, yes it's beautiful in hand and all the rest but first thing I notice is the shutter black out also the live view seems not really live until you depress the shutter half way and first impressions are it's a bit noisy at even quite low IOS (this remains to be really tested although). 

I know these are not going to be popular views here buy honestly Im thinking of returning it and sticking with my Sony and Q3. I love the brand etc but wondering is this just me or should I give it time.

 

 

 

 

 

It sounds like the Leica may just not be for you and nothing wrong with that...Good news is you should not lose much money and some lucky photographer will get a nearly new Leica SL3 at a slight discount, better yet your dealer might credit you in full towards a camera of your choice.

As others have commented on the superb Leica APO lenses (which I 100% agree may be the best glass this side of Heaven) to me there is more, something magical when shooting with a Leica-something intangible albeit real...

I recently shot a friends Canon R3 over the weekend, certainly a great camera and while I love some of Canon's glass (I use their 17mm TS with Leica adaptor and think some of their superteles are amazing) it just wasn't for me. Same when I tried a Nikon Z9 in store-again a great camera by any standard but neither one gave me that special feeling that makes me want to take pictures just for the fun of taking pictures!

In the end only you can decide if the SL3 or any Leica is for you...If you decide to stay-the-course and keep the SL3, welcome to the Leica family! I cannot imagine you will not fall in love with it and some of the very special Leica glass, if not I sincerely hope you find your special camera!

 

[hansvons]

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10 hours ago, Nedward said:

I know these are not going to be popular views here buy honestly Im thinking of returning it and sticking with my Sony and Q3. I love the brand etc but wondering is this just me or should I give it time.

1 hour ago, MakinMemories said:

It sounds like the Leica may just not be for you and nothing wrong with that...

I learned in another thread by a considered post (thanks, @Dipal) that these frustrated posts of thread starters often don't represent the original poster's overall assessment of a new camera (in this case, the SL3) but an extract of a much less dire complete picture. 

That said, Leica is foremost about the user experience. If that doesn't resonate, the brand is not for you. Regarding IQ, Leica excels at the lenses; their colour science is very good, too. Unfortunately, they somewhat blurred their brand with these Panasonic-based non-APO SL Summicrons, which miss that certain something. User experience aside, you get more Leica with an S5II and a 35mm APO Summciron SL than with an SL3 and a non-APO 35mm Summicron SL. 

[keeping_a_balance]

10 hours ago, Dr. G said:

In the the last video, at around the 14 minute mark he talks about the lenses.  I don't know him but apparently he's a photographer that makes a living from photography.  He also doesn't sugar coat anything.  He basically says if you're going to buy into the SL system it's all about the photographer and the lens - and the camera shines with the best quality glass.

Thanks for summarizing this extremely awkward  30 min video of a whole lot of garbage into what he wanted to really say in one sentence.

[Jon Warwick]

Biggest changes I’ve typically achieved in terms of improving image quality from any given sensor is (1) better lens, (2) tripod / technique.

I’m currently considering moving from my GFX100S into the SL3, which ditches 40mp of sensor resolution in terms of what’s on the spec sheet, but gaining a lens rendering and “look” to my prints that I prefer with my SL 35mm APO Summicron.

From what I’ve seen, for some subjects, I do actually quite like the 35 and 50mm Non-APO  Summicron ASPHs too, eg, they seem quite gentle in their look that might work for flattering skin textures as one example.

I’ve not tried the Sony G Masters so can’t suggest if the SL APOs are closer to what you’re after in terms of look or not; technically superb in terms of sharpness and lack of chromatic aberration, that’s for sure IMHO.

Edited March 13 by Jon Warwick

[eab]

I dont know, I shot an SL2 for a bit but later sold it.  I just bought the new SL3.  I really like the reduced weight, it is tangible, the camera feels good in the hand, etc.  I enjoy the shooting experience much more so than my Sony bodies ( A1, A7R5, A7CR ).  I also bought a brand new APO SL35.  I compared it to the Sony with the GM 35 and honestly in terms of sharpness the GM edged it out in the limited testing i did.  I like the overall colors a little better but that was about it.  I actually think the Sony had better AWB if that matters for anything as it can be fixed in post.  I think the SL3 looks better from  noise perspective but I just read they do some in camera NR.  So i am not sure if I got a so-so copy of the APO.  I am definitely going to hang on to it, to see where this goes, as I really like using the body.  

 

[Photoworks]

8 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Did you go through a good dealer for repair?

Jeff

Leica Support NJ

[Photoworks]

7 hours ago, SrMi said:

Lens updates can be a bit tricky. If you mount the lens that needs updating and are in EVF extended mode, you will not see the "Updating Lens" message on the LCD. You might think that the camera is locked up and may try to unmount and remount the lens. What happens if you do that while the lens is being updated?

I agree with you, it is stupid that it does not give you any option. 
I SL3 early at the store to try the camera before, and even their 3 lenses started updating.

It should not start automatically and just show a spinning circle. it should just ask you that there is an update and you can do it now if you want to use the lens.

What if you have an assistant who doesn't know the camera and just does something wrong?

I am going to wright them about it.

[keeping_a_balance]

Is there anywhere one can see that FW on SL lenses are released, so that one can avoid bricking a lens by mistake?

 

 

[LocalHero1953]

1 minute ago, keeping_a_balance said:

Is there anywhere one can see that FW on SL lenses are released, so that one can avoid bricking a lens by mistake?

 

 

It's not a Mac, where firmware just 'happens' to your camera. You have to update it yourself, via download/SD card, or via Fotos. Every time I get a camera firmware update, I mount all my lenses in succession to update the lens firmware. No excuse for being surprised.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

Leica Support NJ

That’s your problem.

Jeff

[keeping_a_balance]

4 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

It's not a Mac, where firmware just 'happens' to your camera. You have to update it yourself, via download/SD card, or via Fotos. Every time I get a camera firmware update, I mount all my lenses in succession to update the lens firmware. No excuse for being surprised.

My Mac products never update unless I instruct them to.  Same with my cameras which I have done several times. 

What I say is not unreasonable given peoples experience (which I have now read more than once on this forum alone of bricking lenses during FW) that if you have updatable lenses in your leica profile registered lenses should get some sort of warning/email something.   I believe this would make their customers happy and keep Leica repair services free from doing avoidable work. 

[ImmerDraussen]

I yesterday tried out the SL3 in the Wetzlar Leica Store with my own lenses. The camera started a lens update immediately. As the rear display was deactivated, there was no hint from outside that update was running.

It was pure luck that I did not remove the lens or the battery. 
 

So at least if you use gear that is not your own, you can be surprised.

 

 

Edited March 13 by ImmerDraussen

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I get a camera firmware update

Or a new camera.

[LocalHero1953]

36 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Or a new camera.

True. But if I bought a new L-mount camera I would be prepared for something different to happen after mounting a L-mount lens I already had. Yes, it might be easy to inadvertently mount a lens requiring an update to a camera with a battery only minimally charged. But the original comment was "Is there anywhere one can see that FW on SL lenses are released, so that one can avoid bricking a lens by mistake?". If one can forget to be careful when mounting older lenses to a new body, then one can forget to look online to see if there's a lens update.

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[davidmknoble]

On 3/12/2024 at 4:45 PM, Nedward said:

Also TBH, I'm not that impressed with the camera either, yes it's beautiful in hand and all the rest but first thing I notice is the shutter black out also the live view seems not really live until you depress the shutter half way and first impressions are it's a bit noisy at even quite low IOS (this remains to be really tested although). 

If you have not used the SL system before, there are a significant number of settings.  I believe there is a setting for live preview either all the time (Permanent) or when the shutter is pressed.  I leave mine on Permanent so that I can view and adjust the exposure.

Also, there are some dynamic range settings for the JPEG’s that sometimes cause the EVF to be noisy (in my opinion).  Finally, I believe, but I am not sure, that you can set the refresh rate on the EVF and if memory serves, the lower refresh rate is better.

The SL system is simple on the outside, but customizable and complex on the inside.  Regardless of the lenses, I think it will be an upgrade on image quality.  The M11 is the same sensor and the closest I have seen to the S3.