Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

[Al Brown]

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Edited January 13, 2022 by Al Brown

[Reciprocity]

20 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

Based on what we have seen this morning, The Official Leica Chicken is encouraged, relieved and pleased.

Ummmm….that chicken sounds like it has been “serviced”…;-)

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[adan]

Since I made my previous comments here, I'll post this here.

Can't find any downloadable examples (yet) of M11 images made at ISO 50000 and at the 18.2 Mpixel camera-produced .DNG size.

But downsizing a ISO 50000 60-Mpixel .DNG sample-gallery image from dpreview.com to 18.2 Mpixels in Photoshop - the noise looks about like the plain-vanilla M10 at ISO 6400. (!!! )

Maybe even better, athough I'd really need to do a head-to-head comparison in controlled conditions (and a REAL M11-SOOC 18.2Mp file) to be sure (and to check for artifacts other than noise alone).

Due to dpreview's terms and conditions, I don't think I can post the image itself here, even as just a cropped detail.

But I do think the M11 will provide at least a 1.5-stop ISO improvement over my M10 (which I won''t shoot at more than ISO 10000) - so that is one item checked off on my list.

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

Dials are a poor substitute for a 4-way or joystick, especially given no aperture rings. Give up the aperture and EV dials and using menus for those? No f-in way.  The real estate was there, but I fear that in this case, sleekness, coolness outweighed the practicality aspect. 

Agreed. I was pointing out that touch screen is not the only way to change the focus point  (as you wrote).

[Al Brown]

2 minutes ago, adan said:

Since I made my previous comments here, I'll post this here.

Can't find any downloadable examples (yet) of M11 images made at ISO 50000 and at the 18.2 Mpixel camera-produced .DNG size.

But downsizing a ISO 50000 60-Mpixel .DNG sample-gallery image from dpreview.com to 18.2 Mpixels in Photoshop - the noise looks about like the plain-vanilla M10 at ISO 6400. (!!! )

Maybe even better, athough I'd really need to do a head-to-head comparison in controlled conditions (and a REAL M11-SOOC 18.2Mp file) to be sure (and to check for artifacts other than noise alone).

Due to dpreview's terms and conditions, I don't think I can post the image itself here, even as just a cropped detail.

But I do think the M11 will provide at least a 1.5-stop ISO improvement over my M10 (which I won''t shoot at more than ISO 10000) - so that is one item checked off on my list.

Check my post #6010 here.

[John Smith]

22 minutes ago, Reciprocity said:

So back to the louder than-a-M240 clacky shutter noise of the original M10 in the mechanical shutter, eh? I’ll have to find out more about using the electronic one when using the OVF but this makes the case for sticking with my M10-P a bit more….well, sound.

Other than that niggle, it looks like a heck of a nice camera with that 3 in 1 sensor.

One of the videos, the one with the winner of the Leica Newcomer award, recorded the shutter sound. Didn't sound bad at all. 

[hdmesa]

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2 hours ago, Stephen.s1 said:

Ummm...  How are you going to look into that EVF without being close to it?  

LOL. Laying down versus crouching down to one knee. At least with the tilt EVF you can get back up without dirt on you.

[Alberti]

In Adorama #6002 he says at 2min56 the camera is cropping; the other #6001 dpreview video’s say there is binning = no cropping! So less MP stays FF.

So what is this less is more, or less is also less picture?

Looks like a tradional over-the-counter guy 🤔

Edited January 13, 2022 by Alberti

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, pgk said:

My view on KR remains the same as it always was.

I would prefer if each link to KR would have a warning, e.g., (KR), so that I do not got there accidentally.

[hdmesa]

Watching and reading many of the reviews is like a highlights reel from this thread. I guess that's the downside of having discussed the spec sheet to death already. 

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Some options (like the perspective control tool on M10-R) that seem like in-camera jpg only are embedded to the DNG file and can be recalled later in PS. Example: if I have perspective control ON the jpg will save it corrected immediatelly, but with DNG I can faithfully recall it by going to Camera Raw's GEOMETRY menu and select the last ("GUIDED") correction option.
 

Film styles are typically differently implemented in the camera than in the post-processor. That setting helps mainly JPEGs and is not directly transferable in the post. Fuji has a special program to send the raw file to the camera and apply a film style there.

[Chaemono]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb adan:

Since I made my previous comments here, I'll post this here.

Can't find any downloadable examples (yet) of M11 images made at ISO 50000 and at the 18.2 Mpixel camera-produced .DNG size.

But downsizing a ISO 50000 60-Mpixel .DNG sample-gallery image from dpreview.com to 18.2 Mpixels in Photoshop - the noise looks about like the plain-vanilla M10 at ISO 6400. (!!! )

Maybe even better, athough I'd really need to do a head-to-head comparison in controlled conditions (and a REAL M11-SOOC 18.2Mp file) to be sure (and to check for artifacts other than noise alone).

Due to dpreview's terms and conditions, I don't think I can post the image itself here, even as just a cropped detail.

But I do think the M11 will provide at least a 1.5-stop ISO improvement over my M10 (which I won''t shoot at more than ISO 10000) - so that is one item checked off on my list.

From the review of Elmar S.

“60 MP give the best resolution on the full frame market. This means finest details or more reserve for cropping. I am mostly fine with 24 MP, but if I need 60 MP, I have it. That´s good to know. I see no real disadvantages. I have a 2018 Mac mini with 3,2 GHz. It works well with the M11 data.

If you don´t want such big files, there is the option to limit the DNG to 18 or 36 MP. But due to my testing 18 MP have no other advantage than saving storage. 60 MP files have more resolution, You can see the finest details and lines of a banknote. Even noise is less. 18 MP files look a bit more grainy and the grain is not so uniform.“

[Herr Barnack]

From the B&H video that introduces theM11, here is a detail shot of the new black finish.  Regarding aesthetic matters, IMO it is an attractive finish that has a "micropebble" appearance. It certainly looks durable, as @jonoslack has reported it to be in his review.

We can't tell what it feels like from a video or a 2D still image, but my priorities are durability and appearance over feel. YMMV.

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[Al Brown]

I am looking for my last answer - maybe @jonoslack, reviewers or any member can answer:
Is the M11 USB-C 3.1 charging input made for Power Delivery (PD) standard or no need for PD? 
Thanks.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Al Brown

[MikeMyers]

After watching all the videos, what I have left to see is the Leica Webinar that starts at 12 noon here in Miami Florida.  I think most of my concerns have been addressed - I would love to have an M11, and some day/year it might happen.  I'm not so sure I want to spend close to $10,000 now, when I've already got so much of what I need in my M10.  So, shooting at 60 megs resolution and then "downsizing" gets me much more dynamic range?  This is something would definitely appreciate - maybe the M11 will now have better dynamic range than the Nikon D850?

The M11 Webinar starts in half an hour, and since it is with Zoom, people can ask questions.  

One thing these videos did, is make me feel even more comfortable with my M10 camera.  

Back when I was working, this would not have been an issue for me - I'd put one on order, and find a way to use part of my income to pay for it.  Unfortunately, when one retires, financial issues aren't so easy to deal with.  I'm speculating that by this time next year, I'll find a way to sell some of my other possessions, and put that money towards a new M11.  I'll still need to select between lighter (black) and heavier (silver).  Since I almost always select black for other reasons, that's the likely choice - but I don't fully understand why Leica can't use the brass parts instead of aluminum, and paint the body black.

Oh yeah - beautifully done presentations!!!!!!    As I see it, perfect.  Very, very professional, enjoyable, informative, and if the goal was to leave me anxious to own an M11 - successful!

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, Stephen.s1 said:

Ummm...  How are you going to look into that EVF without being close to it?  

There is a difference between kneeling down vs. laying down on your stomach. The difference increases with the age.

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, adli said:

 

I find it more convenient to pull out the card than to fiddle with cables.

The biggest issues are the rubber doors on the connector (solved on M11) and the slower transfer speed (to be seen if solved with M11).

[Tailwagger]

40 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

LOL. Laying down versus crouching down to one knee. At least with the tilt EVF you can get back up without dirt on you.

Ever tried laying down in the dirt with the SL2?  Not only do you wind up with a mouth (and hair) full of soil, but you can't see through the EVF anyway as it keeps blacking out due to the eye sensor deciding you'd rather look through the screen instead.  Tilt EVFs rule, AFAIC. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Tailwagger

[hdmesa]

1 minute ago, Tailwagger said:

Ever tried laying down in the dirt with the SL2?  Not only do you wind up with a mouth (and hair) full of soil, but you can't see through the EVF anyway as it keeps blacking out due to the eye sensor deciding you'd rather look through the screen instead.  Tilt EVFs rule, AFAIC. 

Well, some of us no longer grow hair on our head, but my beard certainly appreciates the tilt EVF 😂 

Reminds me of the old Tide clothing detergent commercials we had in the US. The kids come in from playing in the yard with their white shirts completely stained with grass and dirt. Without a tilt EVF, that's me coming back in the house after shooting on the ground 😆

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Hallo,

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[Alberti]

Slack explained the crop issue: that is separate from the downsizing.