Hoping that CL2 = mini SL2

[DirkS]

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I agree. I loved the Leica IIIa and the M3 in analog times and the CL is the real successor of them.  

[nicci78]

2 hours ago, lct said:

+1. The film CL was significantly smaller and nobody would have asked for the same features as Leica M's then. The size of the Q2 would be fine for a full frame mirrorless though. 

Q2 size for mirrorless interchangeable camera is certainly impossible with Leica’s current tech. Because Q2 body did not house IBIS nor shutter mechanism. Add those two you get something around SL2.  
However CL2 is APS-C only. It should hopefully be able to house IBIS and shutter mechanism inside the same Q2  body. 

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[lct]

Not sure why IBIS should be implemented in an M, Q let alone CL size camera. I don't need it personally and would rather choose an SL2 otherwise. YMMV.  

[nicci78]

You don’t need it, until you do. 
Q2 totally replaced all my needs from 28 to 75mm.
So it makes my CL only relevant for long focal lengths. Right now I am using APO-Elmarit-R 100mm with or without APO-Extender-R 2x. So IBIS would be more than welcome.   
Of course I can buy instead the stabilised Lumix S Pro 70-200mm f/4. But I really want to stick with Leica lenses for now. 
AMER 100 is also way more compact than the Lumix. And it offers me faster aperture and awesome macro abilities. 
It worked very well with SL2. But I rather use it with a future stabilised CL2. 
 

Edited July 28, 2020 by nicci78

[tom0511]

Am 24.7.2020 um 07:35 schrieb nicci78:

Dear Leica,
please make us a mini SL2 with IBIS & weather sealing. Still with APS-C sensor within the CL body. 

It can be a bit bigger. I don’t mind. Actually it is a bit too small. As I have to add a grip and a thumb rest, for better handling. 

Please find a way to use the same battery as SL-Q2-SL2. 
 

A better sensor will be awesome. Of course  

Thanks in advanced. 
 

PS : If you plan to release a CL2 without weather sealing and IBIS. Don’t even bother. It will be in the too late and too little category. 
 

Wouldnt a SL2 do verything you ask for,

plus it can also take FF lenses, but also works fine with cl-lenses

[nicci78]

Of course SL2 does everything I want. But for the same reason (size and weight) I chose CL over SL at the time. I cannot resolve myself to buy the huge SL2. So I will wait for CL2. 

You may not realised how close CL and Q2 are in term of size and weight. And how much bigger and heavier the SL2 is, compare to them.

• CL : 403g (body only) with grip = 492g
• Q2 : 718g with grip = 822g. Up from Q 661g with grip 762g
• SL2 : 917g (body only) Up from SL 850g

Leica seems at peace to add around 60g of weight to its newer bodies. So CL2 can grow easily to 460g. 

 

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Edited July 28, 2020 by nicci78

[Rick in CO]

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53 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Of course SL2 does everything I want. But for the same reason (size and weight) I chose CL over SL at the time. I cannot resolve myself to buy the huge SL2. So I will wait for CL2. 

In addition, the huge size of the SL lenses.  The CL and TL2 with the 18-56 zoom are great travel/carry-along cameras.  Time to update the CL with higher res EVF, weather sealing, IBIS if possible.  Wonder too, how soon we will see the Visoflex EVF updated to higher res?  Compatibility with the TL2 would give that camera new life.

[NERICSSON]

CL / SL or Q, I would like to see a lens line ala Q with aperture ring and AF...

Best in my view would be an SL2-ish camera, slighly smaller with user interface similar Q, real knobs and wheels for main parameters i.e shutter speed, aperture and iso. No video features, Leica could charge extra for those if needed 😉 and as I mention a new lens line with aperture ring, could easily be disabled via firmware for those who prefer to fiddle with lcd etc.

 

Edit: and the manual focus tab/ focus feeling of the Q

Edited July 28, 2020 by NERICSSON

[nicci78]

Video is imperative. I use it everyday. One reason why I sold M10 for the CL. 
By the way, adding video is free. 
Another reason to keep video : the video market is growing fast, when the still market is shrinking/sinking even faster. 
 

That’s why every camera manufacturers are turning to video. Even the still only one, such as Nikon or Fujifilm. Olympus missed the memo and let Panasonic take all m4/3 video customers for himself. 
Without strong video capabilities, Leica could be out of business in a few years. And they knew it, and make sure that SL2 and Q2 are as strong as possible in the video department. 
 

People want hybrid cameras instead of two separate devices. And camera manufacturers should be worried when most of the time, iPhones (not Android photo) can output better videos than what their big sensors cameras can. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by nicci78

[Don Morley]

On 7/24/2020 at 6:35 AM, nicci78 said:

Dear Leica,
please make us a mini SL2 with IBIS & weather sealing. Still with APS-C sensor within the CL body. 

It can be a bit bigger. I don’t mind. Actually it is a bit too small. As I have to add a grip and a thumb rest, for better handling. 

Please find a way to use the same battery as SL-Q2-SL2. 
 

A better sensor will be awesome. Of course  

Thanks in advanced. 
 

PS : If you plan to release a CL2 without weather sealing and IBIS. Don’t even bother. It will be in the too late and too little category. 
 

And that makes two of us as I agree 100%. Don

[NERICSSON]

13 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Video is imperative. I use it everyday. One reason why I sold M10 for the CL. 
By the way, adding video is free. 
Another reason to keep video : the video market is growing fast, when the still market is shrinking/sinking even faster. 
 

That’s why every camera manufacturers are turning to video. Even the still only one, such as Nikon or Fujifilm. Olympus missed the memo and let Panasonic take all m4/3 video customers for himself. 
Without strong video capabilities, Leica could be out of business in a few years. And they knew it, and make sure that SL2 and Q2 are as strong as possible in the video department. 
 

People want hybrid cameras instead of two separate devices. And camera manufacturers should be worried when most of the time, iPhones (not Android photo) can output better videos than what their big sensors cameras can. 

Imperative... Well for me, video is just a distraction,  useless clutter in menues and on the camera.

Adding video cant be free, as I understand it you need to mitigate heat issues, not just a software adjustments ? Why not charge extra for the feature...

[NERICSSON]

43 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Video is imperative. I use it everyday. One reason why I sold M10 for the CL. 
By the way, adding video is free. 
Another reason to keep video : the video market is growing fast, when the still market is shrinking/sinking even faster. 
 

That’s why every camera manufacturers are turning to video. Even the still only one, such as Nikon or Fujifilm. Olympus missed the memo and let Panasonic take all m4/3 video customers for himself. 
Without strong video capabilities, Leica could be out of business in a few years. And they knew it, and make sure that SL2 and Q2 are as strong as possible in the video department. 
 

People want hybrid cameras instead of two separate devices. And camera manufacturers should be worried when most of the time, iPhones (not Android photo) can output better videos than what their big sensors cameras can. 

Imperative... Well for me, video is just a distraction,  useless clutter in menues and on the camera.

Adding video cant be free, as I understand it you need to mitigate heat issues, not just a software adjustments ? Why not charge extra for the feature...

[nicci78]

Because video and photo are using the same underlying tech. 
No video = no live view.  
No video = no electronic shutter (aka silent shutter). 
No video = less powerful SOC needed for high megapixels or any high data treatments. 
No video = no fast continuous shooting. 
etc...

As you can see mirrorless technologies are actually based on video tech. Video is really free, that’s why it is offered to the public. 
 

If video has to be removed, the camera will be more expensive ! Not less. Just like M10. Just because you will lose an important part of your customers. You will have to make up for the loss with the sole one not wanting video. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by nicci78

[NERICSSON]

We all have different wishes, I just dont see the need in my dream camera for a video function and would rather be without, just as some prefer to exclude color or LCD screens.

Nothing prevents Leica from having videoless options, then we all can get what we like, as long as they fix all the other things outlined in this thread. 🙂

Maybe I am wrong but video comes as a cost in form of increased size in order to mitigate the heat generated during longer video sessions.

 

 

[Le Chef]

10 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Of course SL2 does everything I want. But for the same reason (size and weight) I chose CL over SL at the time. I cannot resolve myself to buy the huge SL2. So I will wait for CL2. 

You may not realised how close CL and Q2 are in term of size and weight. And how much bigger and heavier the SL2 is, compare to them.

• CL : 403g (body only) with grip = 492g
• Q2 : 718g with grip = 822g. Up from Q 661g with grip 762g
• SL2 : 917g (body only) Up from SL 850g

Leica seems at peace to add around 60g of weight to its newer bodies. So CL2 can grow easily to 460g. 

 

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For this to be a relatively fair comparison on weight you would need to add the 18mm to the weight of the CL when comparing to the Q/Q2, so add 80g to the wight of the CL.

[nicci78]

CL and Q share the same battery. So weight comparison will be more fair :   
- CL + Elmarit-TL 18mm f/2.8 = 483g.  
- Q with fixed Summilux-Q 28mm f/1.7 = 661g 

So for only 178g you get a full frame sensor and a way better, faster lens. 
 

Fun fact :  
CL + TL 18mm kit were released at 3490€ = 7.22€ per gram   
Q were sold at that time 4200€ = 6.35€ per gram 

Edited July 29, 2020 by nicci78

[tom0511]

Am 28.7.2020 um 14:48 schrieb nicci78:

Of course SL2 does everything I want. But for the same reason (size and weight) I chose CL over SL at the time. I cannot resolve myself to buy the huge SL2. So I will wait for CL2. 

You may not realised how close CL and Q2 are in term of size and weight. And how much bigger and heavier the SL2 is, compare to them.

• CL : 403g (body only) with grip = 492g
• Q2 : 718g with grip = 822g. Up from Q 661g with grip 762g
• SL2 : 917g (body only) Up from SL 850g

Leica seems at peace to add around 60g of weight to its newer bodies. So CL2 can grow easily to 460g. 

 

 

I allways ue the CL with grip because I allmost find it too small without grip.

I wonder how much it has to grow if you include the bigger Q2/SL battery, IBIS, and better weather sealing? Can they make it much smaller than the SL2? IBIS would be very usefull for movie recording.

[Jeff S]

On 7/28/2020 at 5:24 AM, nicci78 said:

Q2 size for mirrorless interchangeable camera is certainly impossible with Leica’s current tech. Because Q2 body did not house IBIS nor shutter mechanism. Add those two you get something around SL2.  
However CL2 is APS-C only. It should hopefully be able to house IBIS and shutter mechanism inside the same Q2  body. 

And of course the Q2 needs no space for the interchangeable lens mount, so that the lens can almost be shoved against the sensor, and performance optimized for the integrated system.  But I’m no engineer or designer.  And tech advances keep surprising. 
 

Personally I’d be more interested in a range of smaller SL zooms to use with the SL2, even if slower with narrower focal length range (e.g., 28-70, 70-150 or similar).  The SL2 size is ok with me, although some weight reduction wouldn’t hurt. Hope you get your wish, though; choices are good.
 

Jeff

[jaapv]

The point with the SL(2) is of course that the camera itself is not THAT huge. The main size problem is with the lenses. I could imagine that Leica would allow the CL to expand a bit - it will never have to become anywhere near as large as a full-frame and the lenses will remain the same. I wouldn't mind integrating the handgrip to the bulk and shape. The TL would remain the "pocketable" option of the L system. It might give a new lease on life to the T series.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[lct]

The current CL is not far from compact full frames. I'd rather make it smaller in the same spirit at the film CL.

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