LocalHero1953 Posted July 30, 2020 Share #101 Posted July 30, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 41 minutes ago, nicci78 said: Funny how it is always the same story. You always have three sides : - the don’t change anything. - please improve this and this. - the change everything The first group is almost useless for any manufacturer. Because they are already happy with what they got. So they will probably never buy the next version. The second one, love the camera but need some features to make it awesome. The last, did not like the camera at all. And would like something completely different. Better buy anything else maybe ? So Leica will only try to cater to the second and third group. Listening to third group give us the CL. It got everything that people dislike about the TL. Listening to second group and not to third group. Give us the SL2. Leica did not make a smaller SL. Keep it the same, then add IBIS and higher MP count. I would add a fourth group: those who assume that their personal wishes for upgrades are shared by every other person with the same camera😉 Leica will also cater to your first group: a good proportion of them say they don't want any changes, but still buy the new one. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 30, 2020 Posted July 30, 2020 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Hoping that CL2 = mini SL2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tom0511 Posted July 31, 2020 Share #102 Posted July 31, 2020 And then there are those, who want all kind of features in any camera, which lead to computer-cameras like Sony. You get the biggest list of features, but often with the price of a overloaded user interface (for example Sony, Oly, ...) Still I also would like ibis in the CL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 31, 2020 Share #103 Posted July 31, 2020 If Sony can do IBIS in a small package, why not Leica? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311632-hoping-that-cl2-mini-sl2/?do=findComment&comment=4018772'>More sharing options...
DirkS Posted July 31, 2020 Share #104 Posted July 31, 2020 Maybe because Sony as a world player can pay lots of more money for developements ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERICSSON Posted August 3, 2020 Share #105 Posted August 3, 2020 I would choose IBIS over video any day... Das Wesentliche in a smaller package 👍 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERICSSON Posted August 3, 2020 Share #106 Posted August 3, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 8:30 PM, nicci78 said: Video is imperative. I use it everyday. One reason why I sold M10 for the CL. By the way, adding video is free. Another reason to keep video : the video market is growing fast, when the still market is shrinking/sinking even faster. That’s why every camera manufacturers are turning to video. Even the still only one, such as Nikon or Fujifilm. Olympus missed the memo and let Panasonic People want hybrid cameras instead of two separate devices. Most camera users in the world would argue that the ability to use facebook, tiktok or call a friend with the camera would be imperative 😉 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 3, 2020 Share #107 Posted August 3, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 7/28/2020 at 8:30 PM, nicci78 said: Video is imperative. I use it everyday. One reason why I sold M10 for the CL. By the way, adding video is free. Another reason to keep video : the video market is growing fast, when the still market is shrinking/sinking even faster. That’s why every camera manufacturers are turning to video. Even the still only one, such as Nikon or Fujifilm. Olympus missed the memo and let Panasonic take all m4/3 video customers for himself. Without strong video capabilities, Leica could be out of business in a few years. And they knew it, and make sure that SL2 and Q2 are as strong as possible in the video department. People want hybrid cameras instead of two separate devices. And camera manufacturers should be worried when most of the time, iPhones (not Android photo) can output better videos than what their big sensors cameras can. It depends on the use of the camera; for a travel (short clips, comments on location) and reportage (talking heads) camera it is essential, for other uses less so. A clear plus for mirrorless. Woops - the original intention of the M cameras was travel and reportage... We don't want to be like Dr. Paul Wolff who carried both a Cine camera and his iiif Barnack... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERICSSON Posted August 3, 2020 Share #108 Posted August 3, 2020 23 minutes ago, jaapv said: A clear plus for mirrorless. Woops - the original intention of the M cameras was travel and reportage... If you need it then Its a clear plus. If it drives size, its not a plus, for me at least... I can live with video as long as size is not affected and UI remains "clean" and its possible to disable via menu Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 3, 2020 Share #109 Posted August 3, 2020 And that was the problem with the M10. Too small and packed to allow proper heat dispersal 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERICSSON Posted August 3, 2020 Share #110 Posted August 3, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, jaapv said: And that was the problem with the M10. Too small and packed to allow proper heat dispersal Seems Sony have similar issues with their latest A7 versions? Edit: as is Canon R5 Edited August 3, 2020 by NERICSSON 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted August 8, 2020 Share #111 Posted August 8, 2020 (edited) for me a better EVF and a next version sensor , better buffer, faster ... Edited August 8, 2020 by cirke 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share #112 Posted August 10, 2020 On 8/3/2020 at 8:15 PM, NERICSSON said: Seems Sony have similar issues with their latest A7 versions? Edit: as is Canon R5 Actually every cameras are still cameras first and video second. If you want really long video shooting abilities. You have to buy a dedicated camcorder of a Lumix S1H with an integrated fan. That’s why videos are not making still cameras bigger. Video function have to work within the still camera constraints. For occasional clips it is more than ok. For serious work, just look at the very very expensive and huge camcorders. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 10, 2020 Share #113 Posted August 10, 2020 3 hours ago, nicci78 said: Actually every cameras are still cameras first and video second. If you want really long video shooting abilities. You have to buy a dedicated camcorder of a Lumix S1H with an integrated fan. That’s why videos are not making still cameras bigger. Video function have to work within the still camera constraints. For occasional clips it is more than ok. For serious work, just look at the very very expensive and huge camcorders. Would you say the same about the Sony A7s3? Just curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NERICSSON Posted August 10, 2020 Share #114 Posted August 10, 2020 4 hours ago, nicci78 said: Actually every cameras are still cameras first and video second. If you want really long video shooting abilities. You have to buy a dedicated camcorder of a Lumix S1H with an integrated fan. That’s why videos are not making still cameras bigger. Video function have to work within the still camera constraints. For occasional clips it is more than ok. For serious work, just look at the very very expensive and huge camcorders. Personally I do not wish for longer video or video at all for that matter... On the Q you can disable the red top button for video in the menu, stupidly enough the feature is still possible to activate via 4way selector on the back, many times this is activated by misstake, clearly possible to fix via firmware but a better solution would be to skip it completely. It must be possible to build a smaller camera if you exclude the video features. Disregarding the heat issue (that drives size as well since they try to arrange a semi-decent video function) , you have the hdmi , extra buttons and microphone arrangements that if omitted would provide for a smaller camera and more focus on essentials in a "still camera" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share #115 Posted August 10, 2020 5 hours ago, lct said: Would you say the same about the Sony A7s3? Just curious. Reviewers said that A7S III also overheated. So far only Lumix S1H gives you very long recording. Nothing beats proper heat pipes and fan. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share #116 Posted August 10, 2020 4 hours ago, NERICSSON said: It must be possible to build a smaller camera if you exclude the video features. Disregarding the heat issue (that drives size as well since they try to arrange a semi-decent video function) , you have the hdmi , extra buttons and microphone arrangements that if omitted would provide for a smaller camera and more focus on essentials in a "still camera" Just buy the M10 and let every other hybrid still/video cameras alone. Such remarks about videos led us to very poorly design Q2. No video button is clearly worst than a real one. At least you can deactivate the dedicated record button. Now Leica Q2 needs to rely on weird gesture, or special menu to toggle to video. Which is much more annoying for everybody. Video is really the driving force for sales. Without video, Panasonic would have left the camera business long ago. Which means no more technological partner for Leica. Which may be the end for the german company. Q, Q2, CL, SL, SL2 albeit real Leica made in Germany, are full of Panasonic tech. So hooray video ! 😉 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted August 10, 2020 Share #117 Posted August 10, 2020 I think what is "saving" Leica is its licensing, especially, I'd imagine, with Hauwei Leica's most recent financial statement (Bundesanzeiger Geschäftsbericht 4 / 2018-4 / 2019), which therefore actually covers the year 2018, states that the company achieved a turnover of 299 Million Euro (compared to 2017: 313). The licensing rights amount to 49 (54 Million). The system camera group and the compact camera group have a turnover of 140 and 74 (147 and 76). The system camera segment is back at the level of 2102/2013 and the compact camera segment is at the level before 2010. Without licenses, turnover would fall back to a level of 2011. The management's statements indicate that a decline of 8-9% is expected for 2019 and no statements are made for 2020, but the Covid-19 virus represents a 10% decline for all companies throughout Germany. https://photo.imx.nl/blog/ 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 11, 2020 Share #118 Posted August 11, 2020 14 hours ago, nicci78 said: Reviewers said that A7S III also overheated. So far only Lumix S1H gives you very long recording. Nothing beats proper heat pipes and fan. If you really want to do serious video you run into cameras like this. Be prepared to have very little change left over from 20.000 Euro for rhe body alone. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311632-hoping-that-cl2-mini-sl2/?do=findComment&comment=4025309'>More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted August 11, 2020 Share #119 Posted August 11, 2020 14 hours ago, nicci78 said: Reviewers said that A7S III also overheated. So far only Lumix S1H gives you very long recording. Nothing beats proper heat pipes and fan. Sigma fp also - no heat pipes or fan - just a heat sink, a small addition to an already small camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 11, 2020 Share #120 Posted August 11, 2020 15 hours ago, nicci78 said: Reviewers said that A7S III also overheated. [...] No over heat problem here apparently: https://youtu.be/iDZHHO3baxU Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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