I love my… I love my M2

[RayD28]

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On 1/29/2021 at 5:07 PM, colint544 said:

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Colin, how long have you had this jewel?  Was there much wear when you bought it?  

[colint544]

18 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

Colin, how long have you had this jewel?  Was there much wear when you bought it?  

I've only had it since 2013. It was a standard silver chrome M2, manufactured in 1966. When I got it, the controls were very stiff, the vulcanite was lifting off, and the viewfinder was dim. My hunch was that it hadn't been used in many years.

I had a bit of cash at the time, so sent it off to Kanto Camera. They took the camera apart, replaced replaced the shutter roller (I don't know what that is), cleaned the grime and condensation from the rangefinder, and gave it a full service. At the same time, they chemically stripped all the chrome parts, and painted them black. They slightly brassed the edges here and there. Although that has accelerated with use.

It's a 'fake' black paint M2. Although very much a real M2. I could never afford a genuine black paint M2, so this is a close approximation. It's super smooth, and whisper quiet in operation, and the viewfinder is beautiful and bright. I've put more than 150 rolls of film through it, and it has never missed a beat.

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[RayD28]

I didn't realize Kanto stripped the chrome before painting but that makes sense.  Something for me to consider if I ever get a well used M2 or another M3.  

[colint544]

On 1/31/2021 at 10:15 PM, RayD28 said:

I didn't realize Kanto stripped the chrome before painting but that makes sense.  Something for me to consider if I ever get a well used M2 or another M3.  

They took very good care of my M2. I don't think they cut corners. They even put a black wax 'L' seal in the top screw of the lens mount, something it didn't have when I sent it to them. 

If you're sending them a camera to customise/repaint, you're right - well-used would be a good plan, since they won't just repaint a camera, you have to pay for a service too. Which makes sense really - they're going to be disassembling the camera anyway.

[ktmrider2]

I have a 1958 button rewind M2 and recently purchased a mint black chrome 50th anniversary M4.  I cannot decide which is my favorite as I think Leica got something right about the M2 (especially the viewfinder) but I love the modern film loading/rewind of the M4.

Having said that I have a gripe about some videos I see on you tube saying the M2 was made to a lower standard then the M3.  Granted, I only owned the M3 for a year back in 1977 and have several M2's on various occasions within the last 45 years.  I know the M2 was cheaper but I will argue with anyone that it was made to a lower standard.  Leica saved a bit of cash on the film counter and perhaps by making the body a bit cleaner.  And the .72 viewfinder became the STANDARD for all later M cameras.

My other gripe is watching videos on you tube by people who don't know what they are talking about especially if the subject is film Leicas or film cameras in general.  I guess since I developed my first film in 1967 using a 4x5 Speed Graphic and lived through all the technological developments for film cameras (TTL meters, auto exposure, auto focus, etc) I am not impressed with some of the "gurus" on you tube.

Rant over!

[hektor]

Dear ktmrider2,

I was around when the M2 was current, and visited Wetzlar numerous times.  Let me assure you the M2 was not built to a lower standard.  Leica cut costs by not having an automatic counter and a more expensive to produce top cover.  By 1958 when the M2 was released Leica had also improved the viewfinder as well as making it less expensive to produce.

The above was told to me by the people at Leitz.  I have my father's M3 as well as my own M2 and the latter is my favourite Leica.

Don't bother with self appointed experts on the internet.  Erwin Puts is the only one I respect.

Have fun.

Hektor

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[RayD28]

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I've never used an M2 but have seen people write it is inferior to the M3 in build quality.  I've never heard of people having to repair M2 film counters so I'm not sure if one can even say the M2's is inferior to the M3.  

[hektor]

ktmrider2, you are in the States.  May I suggest you telephone Don Goldberg and discuss the M2 with him.  Don is one of the finest feinmechaniker in the world, to the point that I ship my cameras to him from Australia (as do many other Leica users in this country).  His telephone number is +1 (608) 835-3342

[ktmrider2]

My point is that people on youtube or wherever who say that M2's were built to a lower standard don't know what they are talking about.  As far as I know the M3/M2/M4 and perhaps the M5 were all built to the same standard ie hand fitting of parts.  The M4-2 started a new assembly process which saved Leica money during the time they almost went bankrupt due to the M5 debacle and waiting too long to get on the SLR bandwagon.

I have never believed the M2 was built to a lower quality standard then the M3.  I much prefer the cleaner lines of the M2 (and all subsequent Leica film bodies) to the M3.  And since I prefer the 35 FOV,  I greatly prefer the .72X magnification of the viewfinder on the M2 vs the .91X on the M3.  Recently I purchased a 1.25 magnifier to use on my MP240 for focusing the new super fast lenses and was pleasantly surprised to find it fits my 1958 button rewind M2.

My point is there seems to be a lot of ignorance on youtube about Leicas, film cameras and some of the history of photographic technology.  Imagine if there were political videos with the same amount of mistakes (Qanon?).

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

The high cost of producing the range/viewfinder of the M3 was 1 of the reasons for developing the M2. Outside of the range/viewfinder systems there is not much of a difference between the 2 cameras. It is the cost differential between the 2 different range/viewfinders, NOT the other differences, such as frame counters & rewind buttons/levers, that make the difference.   

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited February 26, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

[RayD28]

I looked at a few online retailer sites and M2s are usually 66% higher priced than M3s.  It's hard determine the actually condition to make sure you are comparing apples to apples but it appears the general market prefers the M2 over the M3.

 

[Michael Geschlecht]

3 hours ago, RayD28 said:

I looked at a few online retailer sites and M2s are usually 66% higher priced than M3s.  It's hard determine the actually condition to make sure you are comparing apples to apples but it appears the general market prefers the M2 over the M3.

 

Hello Ray,

Sorry for the confusion.

I was writing about the original cost differential when the 2 cameras were being sold when they were new & were being sold side by side in the same store. Not their cost in the current market which is being driven by different parameters.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited February 27, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

[RayD28]

I understood what you meant, Michael. I was pointing out how the less expensive production costs back then compared to today’s fair market value. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by RayD28

[ktmrider2]

I had no idea the M2 is selling for higher than the M3.  If someone had asked, I would have guessed they would be similar in price.  I must keep that in mind since every once in a while I cull the herd (always think I have too many cameras).  I know Tamarkin is asking $1800-2100 for chrome M2 bodies which I thought was kinda high.  There seems to be a demand for Leica film cameras.

I just returned to Alaska from Texas.  I brought my M2 back to join the MP240 and M4 which are already here.  I left the 3f back in Texas so now I can put b&w in one body and color in another.  Alaska is approaching 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of darkness (Of course, so is the rest of the world).

[Brooktaw]

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Here is my 1958 button rewind M2. Recently purchased from the son of the original owner. You can see there is a crack in the llumination window but it is tight and you can't feel it when you run a fingernail over it so I'm happy to leave it for now.

I grew up in a household of Leicas in the 1950s and 60s and this M2 is the culmination of a journey that has taken me through an M4, an M3, an M6 Millennium and a Leica M240. The M2 feels like the real classic amongst all those. I'm pretty sure this is the end of the quest for me.

 

[ktmrider2]

Does the quest ever really end?  As I said earlier I cannot decide which film M is my favorite and it varies between the M2 and the M4 so I guess I will have to own both.  The viewfinder in the M2 is the best Leica ever produced if you can live with 35/50/90 while I like the "modern" film loading and rewind of the M4.  Presently, I have a chrome button rewind M2 from 1958 and a black chrome 50th anniversary M4 from 1975.  Every once in awhile I look at a black paint M4 but I would want to put the wear marks on it myself and finding a "like new body" is difficult and the price would be out of this world.

Presently hiking around Anchorage.  The Iditarod sled dog race starts tomorrow.  And we have almost 12 hours of daylight.  I have Ektar 100 in the M4 and HP5 in the M2 with either a 35, 50 or 90 mounted.  The digital body is feeling lonely and I should probably sell it.

Edited March 7, 2021 by ktmrider2

[Reini]

preferably with the summaron.

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Edited March 9, 2021 by Reini

[hektor]

That is the way to protect the eyelets I was mentioning earlier.

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

On 3/5/2021 at 6:07 PM, Brooktaw said:

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Here is my 1958 button rewind M2. Recently purchased from the son of the original owner. You can see there is a crack in the llumination window but it is tight and you can't feel it when you run a fingernail over it so I'm happy to leave it for now.

I grew up in a household of Leicas in the 1950s and 60s and this M2 is the culmination of a journey that has taken me through an M4, an M3, an M6 Millennium and a Leica M240. The M2 feels like the real classic amongst all those. I'm pretty sure this is the end of the quest for me.

 

Ha, ha that's a quick journey in the land of the Leica.  Mine over the last 25 years went like this: M6 --> M6ttl  --> MP --> MP & M7 --> MP, M7, M4 --> 2 x M5 --> Multiyear break as I shot MF and SLR's --> M3 --> M2 --> then another M2, and another .... Now, all I ever really shoot is the 35mm focal length, and the M2 is very good for that.  It's a journey one has to experience themselves to determine what works for them.  

Edited March 13, 2021 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex
typo

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[IanH]

Hi, 

I sold my M6 TTL 0.85 and 35mm Summicron ASPH, it wasn't getting as much use as it had in the past. I reinvested the proceeds in to a range of ASPC street cameras, most were short term acquaintances, apart from the Ricoh GR which has stuck.I even purchased the Leica Type 262 M-D, expecting it to be my dream camera only for it to collect dust, mainly due me being overly precious due to the $ it cost.  

Last year, after many hours spent on this forum, I picked up a battered M2 from Gumtree and paired it with a Canadian V2 35mm 'Cron. 

I love the look of the chrome and in the longer term I hope to give it a new outfit with the Hermes coloured vulcanite to replace the current wrapping. It's nice to have a camera I'm not overly precious about that looks so good! 

Thanks to everyone on the forum that provides their ideas and comments, it's so very interesting to read the various points of view and suggestions.

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