M11 rumors : Leica in bed with Sony ?

[SrMi]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

23 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Cause this, with the upcoming M12 (100MP) in 2024, the minimum shutter speed available will be 1/500 😜

 

In 2024 the camera will be supplied with mechanical arm stabilizers, no need for IBIS :).

[Tailwagger]

29 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Cause this, with the upcoming M12 (100MP) in 2024, the minimum shutter speed available will be 1/500 😜

 

Not a problem as I'm told that the files will be as clean as a whistle with 10 usable stops at ISO 25000 and above.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Stevejack]

I think a lot of people are missing the point that more information in the image file is only ever a good thing.

I rarely run into camera shake issues on the M10R, and on the Sony A7RIV and Sony A1, with 61mp and 50mp respectively, even with IBIS off I don't find there to be an issue. I regularly shoot at 1/60 and below, but I also have no qualms shooting at higher ISO levels.

If I do get some minor camera shake in the final image, Topaz sharpen on the motion blur setting cleans it up if I feel the need. Same with noise from high-ISO, it cleans up easily in post. In fact, the more megapixels you have, the better the noise reduction software works. It's the same with sharpening algorithms - more information in the image is only ever a good thing. 

 

[Chaemono]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

Thank you for the comparisons.
Since BSI can handle steeper incident angles than non-BSI sensors (IMO, their main advantage), it is likely that the topping for BSI-based Leica cameras is different and can influence the rendering a bit.

 

With the SL2-S there’s now more of a reason to have the 50 Summicron-SL and the 50 Summilux-SL IMO.

[intermediatic]

2 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:Regarding a 100 mp M12, I can see no reason for 100 mp given that the majority of photographers never make prints.  Given that, 100 mp in an M camera seems like a riotous exercise in overkill.

I see what you mean for a majority of photographers. For most everyone, an iPhone or Pixel is perfect and when they die, their photos will be swept into the void. But a very small number of people own cameras like the Leica M and the thought of owning an M without intending to make prints is just mind-boggling. 

[Herr Barnack]

21 minutes ago, intermediatic said:

I see what you mean for a majority of photographers. For most everyone, an iPhone or Pixel is perfect and when they die, their photos will be swept into the void. But a very small number of people own cameras like the Leica M and the thought of owning an M without intending to make prints is just mind-boggling. 

Agreed.

There are many facets of Leica M (and Q) photography that are enjoyable and fulfilling.  However - without making fine prints and exhibiting them (or at minimum sharing them with friends), the photographic endeavor somehow seems unfulfilled or cut short.

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Chaemono]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

If one doesn’t make prints, an M only makes sense if one gets the 75 Noctilux to go along with it IMO. And even then, one has to work hard in order to take pictures with a look on a screen that can’t be emulated with an iPhone and some software. 

[nicci78]

9 hours ago, intermediatic said:

I see what you mean for a majority of photographers. For most everyone, an iPhone or Pixel is perfect and when they die, their photos will be swept into the void. But a very small number of people own cameras like the Leica M and the thought of owning an M without intending to make prints is just mind-boggling. 

Vivian Meier never bother to print any of her Rolleiflex photos. Rolls and rolls of film waiting into a vault. 

I really enjoy making prints, but I am now running out of wall space 😅

[nicci78]

By the way if Leica commit to buy exclusively Sony semiconductors sensors, it may be a bigger news. It can mean access to Sony A1 awesome 50MP BSI stack sensor ! A much needed tech for future SL3

[nicci78]

Leica could also gain access to such awesome sensor for future CL2 : APS-C 43MP BSI stacked sensor with 8K video ready.

There are only advantages to become friend with Sony 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Chaemono]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb nicci78:

By the way if Leica commit to buy exclusively Sony semiconductors sensors, it may be a bigger news. It can mean access to Sony A1 awesome 50MP BSI stack sensor ! A much needed tech for future SL3

Eventually we can recycle many of the posts of the 36MP Sony sensor thread for the SL2. 😂

[nicci78]

12 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

My crystal ball is predicting a renaissance of tripod and cable release use.

Regarding a 100 mp M12, I can see no reason for 100 mp given that the majority of photographers never make prints.  Given that, 100 mp in an M camera seems like a riotous exercise in overkill.

It will come sooner than later. Have you seen how Leica Akademie is encouraging to print big ? In print you never have too many pixels.

Peter Karbe is saying over and over again that APO-Summicron-M or APO-Summicron-SL lenses are ready for 100MP at least !!

So it will come

[nicci78]

12 hours ago, Dennis said:

Cause this, with the upcoming M12 (100MP) in 2024, the minimum shutter speed available will be 1/500 😜

 

I am already using my Q2 at 1/250th minimum. Sadly Q2 OIS is totally ineffective. At best you can get a sharp image of still subjects at 1/30th... Like Leica said, Q2 OIS is mainly for video use.

[jaapv]

40 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

By the way if Leica commit to buy exclusively Sony semiconductors sensors, it may be a bigger news. It can mean access to Sony A1 awesome 50MP BSI stack sensor ! A much needed tech for future SL3

What is needed is subjects for good photographs.  This sounds like needing a Ferrari to get some shopping at the Aldi.  The few  photographers that might need 100+ MP are using Phase One cameras. They are not going to switch to a miniature format camera like an SL.

[Chaemono]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb nicci78:

It will come sooner than later. Have you seen how Leica Akademie is encouraging to print big ? In print you never have too many pixels.

Peter Karbe is saying over and over again that APO-Summicron-M or APO-Summicron-SL lenses are ready for 100MP at least !!

So it will come

It’s on its way https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/29330-sony-semicon-develops-100mp-ff-sensor-with-6k-video/ I used to think androidlad was well plugged-in but now I’m more, he’s just making things up. Still, fascinating stuff he comes up with in this thread. 😂

[Stuart Richardson]

15 minutes ago, jaapv said:

What is needed is subjects for good photographs.  This sounds like needing a Ferrari to get some shopping at the Aldi.  The few  photographers that might need 100+ MP are using Phase One cameras. They are not going to switch to a miniature format camera like an SL.

Honestly Jaap, I am not so sure. I am always looking for resolution...I mostly shoot 4x5 and 8x10 film, and use digital for back up or for when the conditions are difficult to use those formats. I find that the quality of the SL lenses in combination with the pleasing sharpness of the sensor (which I think looks a lot better than the S3 at 100%) means that I have stuck with the SL2 instead of using the S3 or Fuji GFX 100. No photographer "needs" 100 plus MP, as we have only had 100 plus megapixels for a few years. I am not saying it is not useful, but it has quickly become a realm of diminishing returns, and the returns diminish oh so quickly once you go past Fuji onto the Phase One. Personally Phase One is just too much for my blood, considering 100x150cm looks great with the SL2. I also think the SL2 and lenses are a much better system than Phase One has currently...better lenses, better, more usable body. Yes, I have tested them! But anyway, I digress. 

As much as I am for resolution, I don't think the M needs anything more than 50mp. For a camera that is handheld without stabilization, I am not sure how much value that extra resolultion gives you unless you are using the very very best of the M lenses and a tripod. Lesnes like the 50mm and 35mm APO...probably the 75mm and 90mm APO Summicrons as well, but not completely wide open. Other than those, and I think a 60mp plus M body is going to outresolve them, particularly in the edges and corners. The SL series is another story, as the lenses are better and the body is better prepared to take the resolution, given the stabilization, focus accuracy from contrast detect AF and greater mass. 

[Chaemono]

It sounds like there is one buyer for the SL4 with the IMX555CQR. The SL lenses certainly could handle it.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Honestly Jaap, I am not so sure. I am always looking for resolution...I mostly shoot 4x5 and 8x10 film, and use digital for back up or for when the conditions are difficult to use those formats. I find that the quality of the SL lenses in combination with the pleasing sharpness of the sensor (which I think looks a lot better than the S3 at 100%) means that I have stuck with the SL2 instead of using the S3 or Fuji GFX 100. No photographer "needs" 100 plus MP, as we have only had 100 plus megapixels for a few years. I am not saying it is not useful, but it has quickly become a realm of diminishing returns, and the returns diminish oh so quickly once you go past Fuji onto the Phase One. Personally Phase One is just too much for my blood, considering 100x150cm looks great with the SL2. I also think the SL2 and lenses are a much better system than Phase One has currently...better lenses, better, more usable body. Yes, I have tested them! But anyway, I digress. 

As much as I am for resolution, I don't think the M needs anything more than 50mp. For a camera that is handheld without stabilization, I am not sure how much value that extra resolultion gives you unless you are using the very very best of the M lenses and a tripod. Lesnes like the 50mm and 35mm APO...probably the 75mm and 90mm APO Summicrons as well, but not completely wide open. Other than those, and I think a 60mp plus M body is going to outresolve them, particularly in the edges and corners. The SL series is another story, as the lenses are better and the body is better prepared to take the resolution, given the stabilization, focus accuracy from contrast detect AF and greater mass. 

I should have said SL let alone M 

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Vivian Meier never bother to print any of her Rolleiflex photos. Rolls and rolls of film waiting into a vault. 

I really enjoy making prints, but I am now running out of wall space 😅

According to her bio, Vivian Meier did develop and print.

http://www.vivianmaier.com/about-vivian-maier/

She did leave a lot of unprocessed material, but not because she did not want to print.

Most of my prints are not on the wall. The print is the final step, IMO, hanging it on the wall is only optional.

 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Herr Barnack]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

It will come sooner than later. Have you seen how Leica Akademie is encouraging to print big ? In print you never have too many pixels.

Peter Karbe is saying over and over again that APO-Summicron-M or APO-Summicron-SL lenses are ready for 100MP at least !!

So it will come

Printing large is a good thing IMO.  Maybe we will see a resurgence of large size prints as a result of all the above.

With a 100+ mp sensor, APO glass would be near mandatory - and with a 60 mp sensor too, for that matter.  It could be that the megadollar APO lenses of the M line will be wise purchases - the 35 and 50 APOs and the 28 APO when it drops.  Fortunately I already have a copy of the 90 APO Summicron.

If a person is fortunate enough to own the APO lenses and a future M camera with 100+ mp, those tools will certainly inspire the committed image maker to live up to the capabilities of his/her tools.  In that way, Leica M cameras and lenses will help to make those who own them better photographers - which (IMO) is the whole point owning M cameras and lenses to begin with.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Herr Barnack