Jump to content

The Leica SL3 - A Review by Jonathan Slack


Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

4 hours ago, SrMi said:

Which firmware? I have just upgraded to 1.1.0.

- Turn On (time to shutter release): less than a second.

- Turn Off (hold the power button until the top LCD turns off): 2.2 sec.

I am using only a UHS-II card.

It is possible that after a while, the camera goes into a much deeper sleep, and the startup becomes slower later. I have seen that on other cameras.

Same for me with 1.1 and a fast CFe card.

Gordon

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

* Shut down is 2 seconds. I might grow to hate this. Or not.

Why does it bother you? Did you notice that you need to hold the power button for only about .5 seconds to initiate a shutdown? The shutdown will complete in about 2 seconds, but you do not need to hold the button all the time.

 

1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

4FPS in 14bit is lame.

Shooting at higher fps is typically done with higher ISOs, i.e., 12-bit is plenty good. That is what Sony does, IIRC.

1 hour ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

No EFCS!

Since the shutter is different, I wonder if we'll see more or less shutter shock. EFCS is long overdue for Leica cameras, including M11.

P.S.: I tried shutter speeds 1/20 to 1/200, handholding at 135mm (55-135). Did not see any shutter shock issue.

Edited by SrMi
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Turn off (hold power button) 6 seconds

I cannot replicate that. Did you notice that you need to hold the power button for only about 1.5 sec to initiate shutdown? 

Edited by SrMi
Link to post
Share on other sites

Great write up. It's interesting reading your thoughts Jono, especially regarding your short dance with the Sony A1.

I use the A1 as my primary camera. I really like going after the small fleeting moments that you just can't capture with a regular autofocus system. Swallows snatching insects out of the air requires a precision and speed in both the lenses + sensor tech that when pushed to its absolute limit is astounding. But unless you're working right on the edge of what current autofocus systems are capable of, I think most of the manufacturers offer systems which are more than good enough for any situation involving people / motorsports / fast mammals.  As you say, other considerations become top priority. 

Very few cameras can do what the Sony A1 can do but there's a reason I also own Leicas. The actual experience of using a camera is, more often than not, the most important thing to consider. Leica stands among very few peers in that regard.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

2 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Camera in hand. Picked mine up a couple of hour ago. Just set up thoughts for now.

Things I like:

* Camera *feels* lighter and smaller even though the numbers suggest I should feel little. Improved balance. That's what happens when the support is moved closer to the centre of gravity.

* Startup is virtually instant with fw 1.1.

* Play button is where it should be.

* Flip screen

* Familiar to SL2 although there's a few annoyances (see below)

* Extra dial (but not ready yet... see below).

* Long tough of the quick menu icons to set. (again. see below).

* IQ is STELLAR. Absolutely fantastic. LR already has SL3 profiles....

* Quick dirty test says IBIS is about the same. I still think it's better than my A7R5 (regardless of the *specs*). Not as good as my X2D...

Neutral:

* Shutter. Louder but still reasonably quiet. I imagine wedding shooters will not like it because it's a sharper sound. My mostly retired arse doesn't care. But I get it if you hate it because the SL2 was beautiful.

* AFC. It's the same as the S5II and Q3. So, fine but really a small upgrade from the mature SL2 firmware and a big step behind my Sony's (A1 and A7R5). Fine for what I need but I'm keeping my A1.

* No internal memory. Cfe works fine and I already have them but it's a cost for most.

* Shut down is 2 seconds. I might grow to hate this. Or not.

* The new *font* and menus. They're fine. So was the ones before I don't see why so much press time was spent building them up.

* Video: Not my strong point but I'd probably use an S5II.......

Dislike:

* They don't allow customisation of the rear dial click. So it's only a mode dial for now. HATE this as I use it for ISO on my SL2 and other systems. Mode in this position is a huge waste of space since you can have the same function on the new quick menu.

* New left dial has only three options and they all suck. ISO, aperture (manual mode) and ev comp. And you can't reach the dial comfortably with the camera at the eye. Stupid and pointless. I have it set to ISo because of the other daft decision. Hope they fix the above and add things like drive mode or focusing options etc.

* Auto ISO and ISO are separated on the new dial. Hate this. To switch you need to twist the left dial and then the front dial and then back to the left dial to change the actual ISO. No. it's just as bad as it sounds. ISO works OK here on the M because it's a considered camera. It's crap on the SL3 because it's a dynamic camera.

* Not enough options in the quick menu options. 8 icons and only 11 choices? Really?

* 4FPS in 14bit is lame. Is the L2 processor from a Commodore 64 or something?

* No high res shot. But hey, Leica! If you're going to do it like Fuji and Sony, don't bother. Either in camera like the SL2 or nothing.

* No EFCS!. Jaaaeeeessssuuuussss! How frigging hard is it?

They can fix 90% of this with fw. And that annoys me because they already should have. This thing has been in test for 6 months and I worked this out in an hour. Leica! You need some more impartial and diversly experienced photographers to test these things. It's almost like you want to make it easy for your haters to lay into you.

In a few updates this will be a smashing camera. For now, it's a C+ at best.

Gordon

Many thanks for your thoughts. In terms of image quality that you think is stellar, how close / far do you anticipate the SL3 will be against your X2D in terms of image quality for very large prints, say, 45-50” wide?

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Why does it bother you? Did you notice that you need to hold the power button for only about .5 seconds to initiate a shutdown? The shutdown will complete in about 2 seconds, but you do not need to hold the button all the time.

 

Shooting at higher fps is typically done with higher ISOs, i.e., 12-bit is plenty good. That is what Sony does, IIRC.

Since the shutter is different, I wonder if we'll see more or less shutter shock. EFCS is long overdue for Leica cameras, including M11.

P.S.: I tried shutter speeds 1/20 to 1/200, handholding at 135mm (55-135). Did not see any shutter shock issue.

1. Holding a button for 2 seconds isn't ideal if you like to turn the camera off between shots. And no, I'm not keen on sleep. I often shoot with my camera over my shoulder. Bumping the shutter button is inevitable and the Sl3 battery life is poor. But it's early days. And no. It's not 5 seconds on my camera. Shutdown takes a 2 second push not 5.

2. Sony don't drop to 12 bit anywhere near that with the A7R5 or A1. And the SL3 tops out at 5fps in 12 bit if you want ANY AF at all. Cameras from 2005 beat that, handily. It's not good enough.

3. Shutter shock isn't the only benefit of EFCS.

Gordon

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Camera in hand. Picked mine up a couple of hour ago. Just set up thoughts for now.

Things I like:

* Camera *feels* lighter and smaller even though the numbers suggest I should feel little. Improved balance. That's what happens when the support is moved closer to the centre of gravity.

* Startup is virtually instant with fw 1.1.

* Play button is where it should be.

* Flip screen

* Familiar to SL2 although there's a few annoyances (see below)

* Extra dial (but not ready yet... see below).

* Long tough of the quick menu icons to set. (again. see below).

* IQ is STELLAR. Absolutely fantastic. LR already has SL3 profiles....

* Quick dirty test says IBIS is about the same. I still think it's better than my A7R5 (regardless of the *specs*). Not as good as my X2D...

Neutral:

* Shutter. Louder but still reasonably quiet. I imagine wedding shooters will not like it because it's a sharper sound. My mostly retired arse doesn't care. But I get it if you hate it because the SL2 was beautiful.

* AFC. It's the same as the S5II and Q3. So, fine but really a small upgrade from the mature SL2 firmware and a big step behind my Sony's (A1 and A7R5). Fine for what I need but I'm keeping my A1.

* No internal memory. Cfe works fine and I already have them but it's a cost for most.

* Shut down is 2 seconds. I might grow to hate this. Or not.

* The new *font* and menus. They're fine. So was the ones before I don't see why so much press time was spent building them up.

* Video: Not my strong point but I'd probably use an S5II.......

Dislike:

* They don't allow customisation of the rear dial click. So it's only a mode dial for now. HATE this as I use it for ISO on my SL2 and other systems. Mode in this position is a huge waste of space since you can have the same function on the new quick menu.

* New left dial has only three options and they all suck. ISO, aperture (manual mode) and ev comp. And you can't reach the dial comfortably with the camera at the eye. Stupid and pointless. I have it set to ISo because of the other daft decision. Hope they fix the above and add things like drive mode or focusing options etc.

* Auto ISO and ISO are separated on the new dial. Hate this. To switch you need to twist the left dial and then the front dial and then back to the left dial to change the actual ISO. No. it's just as bad as it sounds. ISO works OK here on the M because it's a considered camera. It's crap on the SL3 because it's a dynamic camera.

* Not enough options in the quick menu options. 8 icons and only 11 choices? Really?

* 4FPS in 14bit is lame. Is the L2 processor from a Commodore 64 or something?

* No high res shot. But hey, Leica! If you're going to do it like Fuji and Sony, don't bother. Either in camera like the SL2 or nothing.

* No EFCS!. Jaaaeeeessssuuuussss! How frigging hard is it?

They can fix 90% of this with fw. And that annoys me because they already should have. This thing has been in test for 6 months and I worked this out in an hour. Leica! You need some more impartial and diversly experienced photographers to test these things. It's almost like you want to make it easy for your haters to lay into you.

In a few updates this will be a smashing camera. For now, it's a C+ at best.

Gordon

+1.

Link to post
Share on other sites

vor 18 Stunden schrieb jonoslack:

Obviously the hit rate is not as good as with the Sony A1, but with practice and careful settings it's certainly getting there, especially in good light.

Thanks for the writeup. Many aspects of the camera to cover there. I wish you would've gone a bit more in depth on the Autofocus comparison against the Sony A7RV and A1. You say, the Sonys are still better. In terms of what exactly? The SL3 has the Maestro IV processor so does the Q3. Do you think with better algorithms the AF can and will be improved? I have the Q3 and comparing to my Canon R5 the Face and Eye AF is still worlds apart. I wish Leica will improve on this front in future firmware updates for SL3 and Q3 users and Leicas own sake.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jono for the review - informative and component - as always.

In the technical datas is written, that the SL3 has - if it's not a typo - 315 AF-Points. These are minor compared to other cameras (779 Lumix S5II). What's your feeling about this? And how they are arranged on the sensor. I didn't find a picture of it and could they displaed like in my "oldie but goodie" 601?

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Camera in hand. Picked mine up a couple of hour ago. Just set up thoughts for now.

Things I like:

* Camera *feels* lighter and smaller even though the numbers suggest I should feel little. Improved balance. That's what happens when the support is moved closer to the centre of gravity.

* Startup is virtually instant with fw 1.1.

* Play button is where it should be.

* Flip screen

* Familiar to SL2 although there's a few annoyances (see below)

* Extra dial (but not ready yet... see below).

* Long tough of the quick menu icons to set. (again. see below).

* IQ is STELLAR. Absolutely fantastic. LR already has SL3 profiles....

* Quick dirty test says IBIS is about the same. I still think it's better than my A7R5 (regardless of the *specs*). Not as good as my X2D...

Neutral:

* Shutter. Louder but still reasonably quiet. I imagine wedding shooters will not like it because it's a sharper sound. My mostly retired arse doesn't care. But I get it if you hate it because the SL2 was beautiful.

* AFC. It's the same as the S5II and Q3. So, fine but really a small upgrade from the mature SL2 firmware and a big step behind my Sony's (A1 and A7R5). Fine for what I need but I'm keeping my A1.

* No internal memory. Cfe works fine and I already have them but it's a cost for most.

* Shut down is 2 seconds. I might grow to hate this. Or not.

* The new *font* and menus. They're fine. So was the ones before I don't see why so much press time was spent building them up.

* Video: Not my strong point but I'd probably use an S5II.......

Dislike:

* They don't allow customisation of the rear dial click. So it's only a mode dial for now. HATE this as I use it for ISO on my SL2 and other systems. Mode in this position is a huge waste of space since you can have the same function on the new quick menu.

* New left dial has only three options and they all suck. ISO, aperture (manual mode) and ev comp. And you can't reach the dial comfortably with the camera at the eye. Stupid and pointless. I have it set to ISo because of the other daft decision. Hope they fix the above and add things like drive mode or focusing options etc.

* Auto ISO and ISO are separated on the new dial. Hate this. To switch you need to twist the left dial and then the front dial and then back to the left dial to change the actual ISO. No. it's just as bad as it sounds. ISO works OK here on the M because it's a considered camera. It's crap on the SL3 because it's a dynamic camera.

* Not enough options in the quick menu options. 8 icons and only 11 choices? Really?

* 4FPS in 14bit is lame. Is the L2 processor from a Commodore 64 or something?

* No high res shot. But hey, Leica! If you're going to do it like Fuji and Sony, don't bother. Either in camera like the SL2 or nothing.

* No EFCS!. Jaaaeeeessssuuuussss! How frigging hard is it?

They can fix 90% of this with fw. And that annoys me because they already should have. This thing has been in test for 6 months and I worked this out in an hour. Leica! You need some more impartial and diversly experienced photographers to test these things. It's almost like you want to make it easy for your haters to lay into you.

In a few updates this will be a smashing camera. For now, it's a C+ at best.

Gordon

Gordon you should be a professional camera consultant, print a card, make a fancy name, and start raking in the money 

that’s the best and most honest review on the interwebs 
 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Camera in hand. Picked mine up a couple of hour ago. Just set up thoughts for now.

Things I like:

* Camera *feels* lighter and smaller even though the numbers suggest I should feel little. Improved balance. That's what happens when the support is moved closer to the centre of gravity.

* Startup is virtually instant with fw 1.1.

* Play button is where it should be.

* Flip screen

* Familiar to SL2 although there's a few annoyances (see below)

* Extra dial (but not ready yet... see below).

* Long tough of the quick menu icons to set. (again. see below).

* IQ is STELLAR. Absolutely fantastic. LR already has SL3 profiles....

* Quick dirty test says IBIS is about the same. I still think it's better than my A7R5 (regardless of the *specs*). Not as good as my X2D...

Neutral:

* Shutter. Louder but still reasonably quiet. I imagine wedding shooters will not like it because it's a sharper sound. My mostly retired arse doesn't care. But I get it if you hate it because the SL2 was beautiful.

* AFC. It's the same as the S5II and Q3. So, fine but really a small upgrade from the mature SL2 firmware and a big step behind my Sony's (A1 and A7R5). Fine for what I need but I'm keeping my A1.

* No internal memory. Cfe works fine and I already have them but it's a cost for most.

* Shut down is 2 seconds. I might grow to hate this. Or not.

* The new *font* and menus. They're fine. So was the ones before I don't see why so much press time was spent building them up.

* Video: Not my strong point but I'd probably use an S5II.......

Dislike:

* They don't allow customisation of the rear dial click. So it's only a mode dial for now. HATE this as I use it for ISO on my SL2 and other systems. Mode in this position is a huge waste of space since you can have the same function on the new quick menu.

* New left dial has only three options and they all suck. ISO, aperture (manual mode) and ev comp. And you can't reach the dial comfortably with the camera at the eye. Stupid and pointless. I have it set to ISo because of the other daft decision. Hope they fix the above and add things like drive mode or focusing options etc.

* Auto ISO and ISO are separated on the new dial. Hate this. To switch you need to twist the left dial and then the front dial and then back to the left dial to change the actuaThanks Gordon,

 

l ISO. No. it's just as bad as it sounds. ISO works OK here on the M because it's a considered camera. It's crap on the SL3 because it's a dynamic camera.

* Not enough options in the quick menu options. 8 icons and only 11 choices? Really?

* 4FPS in 14bit is lame. Is the L2 processor from a Commodore 64 or something?

* No high res shot. But hey, Leica! If you're going to do it like Fuji and Sony, don't bother. Either in camera like the SL2 or nothing.

* No EFCS!. Jaaaeeeessssuuuussss! How frigging hard is it?

They can fix 90% of this with fw. And that annoys me because they already should have. This thing has been in test for 6 months and I worked this out in an hour. Leica! You need some more impartial and diversly experienced photographers to test these things. It's almost like you want to make it easy for your haters to lay into you.

In a few updates this will be a smashing camera. For now, it's a C+ at best.

Gordon

Thanks for this Gordon.

I've successfully been de-gassed. 

Will hold on to my SL2 and money (for now). 

🙂

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

1. Holding a button for 2 seconds isn't ideal if you like to turn the camera off between shots. And no, I'm not keen on sleep. I often shoot with my camera over my shoulder. Bumping the shutter button is inevitable and the Sl3 battery life is poor. But it's early days. And no. It's not 5 seconds on my camera. Shutdown takes a 2 second push not 5.

I think he meant .5 (0.5) secs not 5 secs

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Camera in hand. Picked mine up a couple of hour ago. Just set up thoughts for now.

Things I like:

* Camera *feels* lighter and smaller even though the numbers suggest I should feel little. Improved balance. That's what happens when the support is moved closer to the centre of gravity.

* Startup is virtually instant with fw 1.1.

* Play button is where it should be.

* Flip screen

* Familiar to SL2 although there's a few annoyances (see below)

* Extra dial (but not ready yet... see below).

* Long tough of the quick menu icons to set. (again. see below).

* IQ is STELLAR. Absolutely fantastic. LR already has SL3 profiles....

* Quick dirty test says IBIS is about the same. I still think it's better than my A7R5 (regardless of the *specs*). Not as good as my X2D...

Neutral:

* Shutter. Louder but still reasonably quiet. I imagine wedding shooters will not like it because it's a sharper sound. My mostly retired arse doesn't care. But I get it if you hate it because the SL2 was beautiful.

* AFC. It's the same as the S5II and Q3. So, fine but really a small upgrade from the mature SL2 firmware and a big step behind my Sony's (A1 and A7R5). Fine for what I need but I'm keeping my A1.

* No internal memory. Cfe works fine and I already have them but it's a cost for most.

* Shut down is 2 seconds. I might grow to hate this. Or not.

* The new *font* and menus. They're fine. So was the ones before I don't see why so much press time was spent building them up.

* Video: Not my strong point but I'd probably use an S5II.......

Dislike:

* They don't allow customisation of the rear dial click. So it's only a mode dial for now. HATE this as I use it for ISO on my SL2 and other systems. Mode in this position is a huge waste of space since you can have the same function on the new quick menu.

* New left dial has only three options and they all suck. ISO, aperture (manual mode) and ev comp. And you can't reach the dial comfortably with the camera at the eye. Stupid and pointless. I have it set to ISo because of the other daft decision. Hope they fix the above and add things like drive mode or focusing options etc.

* Auto ISO and ISO are separated on the new dial. Hate this. To switch you need to twist the left dial and then the front dial and then back to the left dial to change the actual ISO. No. it's just as bad as it sounds. ISO works OK here on the M because it's a considered camera. It's crap on the SL3 because it's a dynamic camera.

* Not enough options in the quick menu options. 8 icons and only 11 choices? Really?

* 4FPS in 14bit is lame. Is the L2 processor from a Commodore 64 or something?

* No high res shot. But hey, Leica! If you're going to do it like Fuji and Sony, don't bother. Either in camera like the SL2 or nothing.

* No EFCS!. Jaaaeeeessssuuuussss! How frigging hard is it?

They can fix 90% of this with fw. And that annoys me because they already should have. This thing has been in test for 6 months and I worked this out in an hour. Leica! You need some more impartial and diversly experienced photographers to test these things. It's almost like you want to make it easy for your haters to lay into you.

In a few updates this will be a smashing camera. For now, it's a C+ at best.

Gordon

Great feedback.  

As you say a lot will be improved via FW - but  frustrating when you just dropped $7k and that the SL is supposed to be the forefront of technological advancements from Leica.  

Does anyone know if eventual manual focus assists like we have seen in the Nikon Zf (eye recognition punch in when using manual lenses) could eventually be available via eventual firmware or is this a hardware issue?

And maybe a silly question, but I assume the readout speed of the censor is the same as on the m11, so if I had rolling shutter on that camera, I will have it here?  or is there a difference?  

I think lack of internal storage and content credential is a pity. Leica was the first at these things and now can't implement these on this 

Owning an SL2S I just bought last year, the IQ and flip screen are about the only things that make me think of upgrading to this camera - but I think I will pass on this one and wait for SL3S (which arguably should be released next year).

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

3. Shutter shock isn't the only benefit of EFCS.

Shutter shock elimination is the main benefit of EFCS. There is also a reduced shutter lag. What else?

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

1. Holding a button for 2 seconds isn't ideal if you like to turn the camera off between shots. And no, I'm not keen on sleep. I often shoot with my camera over my shoulder. Bumping the shutter button is inevitable and the Sl3 battery life is poor. But it's early days. And no. It's not 5 seconds on my camera. Shutdown takes a 2 second push not 5.

in between shots, you can push the power button once and it will go to sleep. when you pick up the camera just push the shutter and it is on again

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...