Jono Slack Review: Leica M11 Monochrome

[david strachan]

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I think you are right..

Too many bigger corporations are making up for lost revenue from Covid and jacking their pricing.  Can be seen in some pretty obscene half yearly profits...particularly here in Australia.  While the populace struggle on with  inflation and government huge reticence to grant wage increases...which unfortunately drives inflation too.

I think all the corporations should pull the belt in on their massive corporeal bulges

...

Perhaps not the place on Jonos review, but Leica are guilty as others on over massive profiteering, I think.

 

If I wanted a Leica M11M, body only, no extra battery or lens, or Visoflex...we'll it's over Aus$15,000.  That's just too much for my purse.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14 by david strachan

[MarkP]

I’ve spent a lot on Leica equipment and upgrades over the years, including the M9M which I sold a few years ago. I didn’t regret parting with it when I did.  As of late I had started thinking about replacing it.

I know prices have been steadily creeping up over the years but at this stage I really don’t think I can  justify spending $15K AUD on M11 cameras.

Edited April 14 by MarkP

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[MarkP]

6 hours ago, david strachan said:

I think you are right..

Too many bigger corporations are making up for lost revenue from Covid and jacking their pricing.  Can be seen in some pretty obscene half yearly profits...particularly here in Australia. 

And higher interest rates taking money from those who can least afford it straight into the pockets of institutional investors who hold bank shares.  There’s something not right about that.

But I digress…

 

Edited April 14 by MarkP

[Bikie John]

Thank you Jono, very thorough and interesting, and well explained as always.

I think we can see a few clues there as to what might be in an M11-P

John

[Jan1985]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb MarkP:

I’ve spent a lot on Leica equipment and upgrades over the years, including the M9M which I sold a few years ago. I didn’t regret parting with it when I did.  As of late I had started thinking about replacing it.

I know prices have been steadily creeping up over the years but at this stage I really don’t think I can  justify spending $15K AUD on M11 cameras.

Even if your familiar with Leica like prices these price tages reach a dimension that is exclusively reserved for people who dont bother whether buying a Porsche or an M11. So this is what I mean. It becomes a true piece of luxury.

And so these wonderful camera will never arrive at talented photographers with a high motivation and enthusiam to make great artwork but with a limited budget. In these hands a camera is more a tool like a pencil or a piece of charcoal to draw something beautiful. so nowadays the great documentary pictures are made with a Canon, Nikon, Sony etc. Everything else is just relying on a legacy of things that happened in the past.

That‘s the sad thing when I think about these wonderful cameras. They are more sitting in glas houses and shelves.

Edited April 14 by Jan1985

[steamboat]

On 4/13/2023 at 10:10 AM, verwackelt said:

Thank you for the report and the test.
I like the color separation of the straight M11 b&w conversion more than the M11M file.
You will always have to use an orange or redfilter with the M11M to separate the greens and the reds better 
For my taste you can achieve more variations with the color M11 than with the M11 monochrome.

I agree. Using the color sliders to control to tones of grey is so nice photographing in raw on an M-P (typ246) in my case. 

Anyway, nice review as usual, Jono.

[jonoslack]

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23 hours ago, thrid said:

Nice review Jono, thanks for writing that.

Very nice camera, but $9200 plus tax is a tough pill to swallow, unless you are making a living from it or money is of no concern.

I think I will eventually go for an M11, because I need color files to emulate the spectral response of film stocks like Tri-X etc.

And if I only have one body it would be advantageous to also be able to shoot color.

I still think it would be nice if Leica added an additional optional shutter mode that works in the classic CLOSED-OPEN-CLOSED cycle, even if that means the loss of any metering.

Hi there

This is all my thinking - I have an M11, and it's fine at 6400 ISO and that's good enough. I'm also very keen on getting the shutter on the M11 better (Leica think I'm a broken record). 

But the M11 (apart from the shutter noise) is a wonderful camera, and converting to colour on the channel mixer is worth more to me than the obvious (but not very important )  improvement of DR and resolution on the M11M

[jonoslack]

22 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

From perusing the lovely samples you provided in the article (though the magnification when viewing on your site didn't seem to work properly with my browser at least), I find myself curious as to whether you did any shooting with any Mandlers and such?  The high contrast APOs always seem to produce that fantastic range of tone on the monochoms... so much pop and definition... but I'd love to see if the older glass renders in that silky smooth fashion I so love. 

Hi there

I'm sorry - I was mostly concentrating on the new 50, and my favourites as well. But I don't really have any Mandlers (shame). But shooting the M!1M with the 35 steel rim and the 50 Noctilux remakes was a real joy. 

[jonoslack]

9 hours ago, Bikie John said:

Thank you Jono, very thorough and interesting, and well explained as always.

I think we can see a few clues there as to what might be in an M11-P

John

I guess so John, but I hadn't thought about it and I don't know!

 

[jonoslack]

6 hours ago, Jan1985 said:

Even if your familiar with Leica like prices these price tages reach a dimension that is exclusively reserved for people who dont bother whether buying a Porsche or an M11. So this is what I mean. It becomes a true piece of luxury.

And so these wonderful camera will never arrive at talented photographers with a high motivation and enthusiam to make great artwork but with a limited budget. In these hands a camera is more a tool like a pencil or a piece of charcoal to draw something beautiful. so nowadays the great documentary pictures are made with a Canon, Nikon, Sony etc. Everything else is just relying on a legacy of things that happened in the past.

That‘s the sad thing when I think about these wonderful cameras. They are more sitting in glas houses and shelves.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree. If you are a self employed long distance lorry driver, then the cost of a lorry dwarfs the price of Leica cameras. If you're good at your job then the cost of these cameras really isn't the killer factor. 

[jonoslack]

2 hours ago, steamboat said:

I agree. Using the color sliders to control to tones of grey is so nice photographing in raw on an M-P (typ246) in my case. 

Anyway, nice review as usual, Jono.

Thank you

For me - I agree too - using the colour sliders with an M11 file is more beneficial than the extra detail in the Monochrom file . . . and maybe you wanted it in colour!

But the remit was to review the mono - and it is better!

[mboerma]

15 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Hi there

This is all my thinking - I have an M11, and it's fine at 6400 ISO and that's good enough. I'm also very keen on getting the shutter on the M11 better (Leica think I'm a broken record). 

But the M11 (apart from the shutter noise) is a wonderful camera, and converting to colour on the channel mixer is worth more to me than the obvious (but not very important )  improvement of DR and resolution on the M11M

Yes, the shutter is something I have come to like less of the more than a year of use. I loved the M10-P shutter. Best one in a digital M. I sometimes get temped to move back to the M10-P just because of that. But the great sensor and battery keep me sensible. 

[Olaf_ZG]

Great review, but not really surprising. Till now, every new edition of a M shows some improvement. Depends on the user how important those are.

When rumors came out that the m10m was discontinued, I managed to get a new one for a very fair price. Bought a secondhand 50lux asph (don’t know which version, sorry) in silver/chrome as well. Wonderful set and I sincerely hope it will last me a “lifetime”. To me, the M (any) is for b/w photography, it’s my mindset.

I sincerely hope that the new mm won’t have the problems as the m11 had, things should be sorted out by now.

The only thing nagging me is the part of weatherproof… not needing a bag would be great, so if the m11(m) is able to stand some showers, it would make me upgrade: switch the q2 plus m10m for a m11m…

 

[Tailwagger]

1 minute ago, jonoslack said:

Thank you

For me - I agree too - using the colour sliders with an M11 file is more beneficial than the extra detail in the Monochrom file . . . and maybe you wanted it in colour!

But the remit was to review the mono - and it is better!

Which is what I've always done... but over the years as I've navigated SEfex and rowed it sliders, I've always heard, faintly, the Monochrom siren's call.  The only thing that seems to be saving me from crashing on these rocks this time around is the sense that perhaps I should be looking more at acquiring the 35 and/or 50 APOs. 

[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Great review, but not really surprising. Till now, every new edition of a M shows some improvement. Depends on the user how important those are.

When rumors came out that the m10m was discontinued, I managed to get a new one for a very fair price. Bought a secondhand 50lux asph (don’t know which version, sorry) in silver/chrome as well. Wonderful set and I sincerely hope it will last me a “lifetime”. To me, the M (any) is for b/w photography, it’s my mindset.

I sincerely hope that the new mm won’t have the problems as the m11 had, things should be sorted out by now.

The only thing nagging me is the part of weatherproof… not needing a bag would be great, so if the m11(m) is able to stand some showers, it would make me upgrade: switch the q2 plus m10m for a m11m…

 

Hi Olaf

my M10 was subjected to terrible weather without any problems = sure the lack of baseplate on the M11 is better, but . . . 

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I'm also very keen on getting the shutter on the M11 better (Leica think I'm a broken record). 

Totally agree. There's always something that holds me back from venturing into the digital M fold again. With the M10 it was the absence of an electronic shutter; with the M11 it's the feeling that the shutter operation takes too long and sounds too complicated. A M shutter should always be a simple quiet snick (and there should be a fast read-out electronic one as well!)

[THEME]

Great review, as always, @jonoslack . The fundamental question remains: why a monochrome M iteration. One might spot miniscule detail difference in pixel-peeping when comparing a regular M photo to its monochrome sibling's. Comparing online sample images, it's difficult to spot any difference.

If one prints very large on top-grade printers, an M Monochrom does likely make a difference. I reckon that 99 percent of users don't print big.

But Leica knows its clientele very well and shooting a Monochrom is even more about Das Wesentliche. For personal satisfaction, the M Monochrom might offer the most satisfying tactile, haptics and gear experience available. Doesn't mean the regular M offers lower-quality photography in gray tones, a.k.a. black-and-white.

The M11 Monochrome is a very desirable camera with amazing specs. 200,000 max ISO! Remember, some of the greatest photographs taken spot noise, are not tack sharp and display rudimentary gray tones.

The camera and lens are the conveyors. A great eye can spot and execute great photographs with any moderately capable camera.

So in this sense an M Monochrom is very selfish. It's about self-experience, about the pleasure of using an exquisite, unique tool. That's the marketing. In the real world, capable hands deliver M-Monochrom-like images with any recent edition M.

Of course, I'd like to have an M11M. Am a very minimalist shooter though, with a one camera, one lens setup. And am far from having exhausted the potential of the M11 – it renders astonishing black-and-white photography as well.

[gotium]

This is a beautiful machine and I'd love to use one, but after 15 years with the M system I finally feel priced out. I see $9195 and what comes to mind is "nah."

[MarkP]

11 hours ago, jonoslack said:

 

‘I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree. If you are a self employed long distance lorry driver, then the cost of a lorry dwarfs the price of Leica cameras. If you're good at your job then the cost of these cameras really isn't the killer factor.’
 

Hi Jono

I may be misunderstanding the intent of this comment.

However, many people are very good at their job, photographers or not, and can’t afford this, ever.  That they can afford a truck to generate an income, but not an M11, is a poor  analogy.

I’m very good at my job and earn enough that I could afford this camera. In fact I’m probably one of the target demographics - middle aged physician. But at some point the prices crossed over to ludicrous.  I have not previously balked at Leica equipment prices.

For me, lens prices (well excluding 75 Noctilux etc) are easier to justify as they have a lifespan of decades if not longer, not so with digital cameras. But now the entry price for new digital bodies is insane.
 

At this stage I won’t be buying a new M body. But I have said that before…🙄

Edited April 15 by MarkP

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Hallo,

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[Steve Ash]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb MarkP:

...

For me, lens prices (well excluding 75 Noctilux etc) are easier to justify as they have a lifespan of decades if not longer, not so with digital cameras. But now the entry price for new digital bodies is insane.
 

At this stage I won’t be buying a new M body. But I have said that before…🙄

Another way to respond is to let several body releases pass-by. That is also much more sustainable.