Jono Slack Review: Leica M11 Monochrome

[algrove]

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18 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Of course you can't hear it.  The pixels are just voltages, transferred from tiny sensor cells to a collecting bus by other voltages.  Any shutter sound will be a fabrication, like the exhaust note of an electric car.

Yes of course, but an artificial sound might be advantageous.

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, algrove said:

Yes of course, but an artificial sound might be advantageous.

21 hours ago, rustyrus said:

Exactly...Create a sound in Firmware and make a little menu option to turn on or off. 

It would have to be for the next M model since the M11 has no speakers.

Edited April 25, 2023 by hdmesa

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[rustyrus]

You sir, are correct! I didn't even think of that. If thats my only complaint, Im good

[Chaemono]

It's counterintuitive but highlight-weighted metering exposes more for the shadows. 😂 It should be called shadows-weighted metering. Centre-weighted metering, on the other hand, protects highlights better.

These were in-camera JPEGs taken ten seconds apart with EV at -1/3. I can provide the JPEGs with the EXIF data.

Centre-weighted with auto exposure: the camera selects 1/2500 sec.

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Ten seconds later, highlight-weighted with auto exposure: the camera selects 1/1600 sec.

[Jon Warwick]

It seems the highlight-weighted system in the M11M is pretty smart, I didn't feel like it excessively underexposed the samples I took, and sometimes allowed through red blinkies when initially opening up the file in ACR - but these were then completely controllable in ACR by pulling down the Highlights slider.  I'd rather have this balance that's a bit more middling, rather than needing to lift up the Shadows constantly. All in all, I was impressed.

[Chaemono]

In any case, I have to agree with Jono on setting the camera at EV -1/3 rather than 0 in bright daylight even with centre-weighted metering (if there is a light source in the scene one would have to go lower, of course). It's not that there will be highlights blown, but I prefer the slightly darker tones as a starting point with the linear tone curve in LR. The images in the screenshots are cropped just a bit to match. They were taken six seconds apart. 

EV 0 with centre-weighted metering in auto exposure results in 1/500 sec.

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EV -0.333 with centre-weighted metering in auto exposure results in 1/640 sec.

[digitalfx]

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On 4/23/2023 at 10:17 PM, scott kirkpatrick said:

Of course you can't hear it.  The pixels are just voltages, transferred from tiny sensor cells to a collecting bus by other voltages.  Any shutter sound will be a fabrication, like the exhaust note of an electric car.

It's completely silent which is the issue...a sound, even a beep would be helpful. Im constantly thinking my camera wasn't ready when it uses the electronic shutter despite the fact that if I looked closer the display indicates a higher shutter speed followed by the dashes.

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 5/8/2023 at 4:17 PM, digitalfx said:

It's completely silent which is the issue...a sound, even a beep would be helpful. Im constantly thinking my camera wasn't ready when it uses the electronic shutter despite the fact that if I looked closer the display indicates a higher shutter speed followed by the dashes.

Moving air takes a lot more power than moving electrons around.  The M11 has achieved battery life that feels incredible to me (even tho I keep the VS-2 viewfinder on much of the time) and I would hate to lose that.  Yes, I am sometimes bothered by the silent shutter above 1/4000 sec, but couldn't something that blinked in both viewfinders do the job for the photographer?  The point that @Jono keeps making is that an audible sound keys the subjects in a coordinated shot to move to their next pose.  I think that could be handled by talking with them, even if it is as simple as a "conversation" restricted to encouraging murmurs and "next!".

 

[digitalfx]

I cant imaging a small beep will have any noticeable impact on battery life. I rarely use the electronic shutter and thats part of the issue. I have grown accustomed to the Leica M shutter sound (as quite as it is) and when I hear nothing it makes me think the camera wasn't powered on or wasn't ready. Im not so concerned with the subject hearing the shutter...honestly id prefer they dont.

[Kiwimac]

On 4/14/2023 at 11:02 AM, Tailwagger said:

I don't care one way or the other really.  I dont use the M11 internal memory as I find a card far more convenient.. particularly now that Apple has reinstated a card reader in the MBP.  A 64gb UHS card is more than enough storage and speed for my use case.  Having the back up memory is nice, but not a requirement.  Perhaps useful for a trip sans laptop, but other than that, while I wouldn't say its useless, its not compelling.  But IIRC previously the monos have come in at an additional half a G or more. So an additional $200 over the M11, but at least with more memory, suggests to me that perhaps they've realized that they are very close to the breaking point in terms of pricing.

To my mind, internal storage is potentially problematic. If it fails, your camera is off to Germany for 12 weeks…

 

An SD card failure is annoying but you just buy another and move on. 

[DadDadDaddyo]

Sorry for posting so long after this excellent review, but I really want to say I feel that in Jono's review work, combined with that of Sean Reid, we find the gold standard of knowledgeable reportage on these systems. Jono has the gift for capturing the ergonomics and feel of a system, while Reid's technical analysis of a given system is categorically in-depth.

Regarding metering. In the past I've used spot metering where available, including in-camera, with the understanding that the spot, if centered in the metering system, will deliver exposure at a certain, fixed point on a gray scale.

So one method I've used is employing the spot meter to check out different areas of a planned shot to get a sense for the dynamic range of the subject, and then placing the spot and metering on that location for placement on the scale, having used the quick scan around the subject to get a sense of where everything else will fall. Old habits acquired through the use of handheld spot meters in medium and large format work come home to roost for me here.

The only downside to using the spot metering is that it's a little time consuming although it can be sped up the more you use it. One quickly learns to find the high and low in the shot, and the clicks of the shutter speed dial or the f stop ring give you a sense of the range involved. 

All that said, I've been pleased to find that the Highlight-Weighted metering works surprisingly well when I've tried it. It may prove to be my go-to for situations requiring point-and-fire speed. And the touchscreen menu offers fast access to switching metering modes. 

Again, many thanks, Jono, for your continuing excellent work and service to this community! I'd like to ask you to pass along the same praise to the possibly-somewhat-reclusive Sean Reid. I spent a few years in Vermont myself, directly after a number of years in Alaska, so I do truly understand bloody-minded non-joiners and where they're coming from!

Heck, one of my view cameras was even built by that very epitome of the Vermont craftsman, the amazing Richard Ritter. 

Anyway, thanks again, and best wishes!

[Jeff S]

A Fred Picker disciple, I presume.  I still have my modified Pentax spot meter, somewhere; not needed in my handheld digital M world.

Jeff

[rustyrus]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:39 AM, Kiwimac said:

To my mind, internal storage is potentially problematic. If it fails, your camera is off to Germany for 12 weeks…

 

An SD card failure is annoying but you just buy another and move on. 

How many IPAD's, Iphones, Samsung Phones, Tablets.  Computer SSD's etc have you seen fail? Internal memory is much more stable than anything removable and exposed to elements. 

 

I don't carry any SD cards anymore and love it! 

[TeleElmar135mm]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb Jeff S:

A Fred Picker disciple, I presume.  I still have my modified Pentax spot meter, somewhere; not needed in my handheld digital M world.

Jeff

A quick question -  is the camera still useable when the internal memory fails?  If so, it's a problem. But when you can use SD-cards with damages internal memory, you have an alternative carry on making pictures

[Jeff S]

49 minutes ago, TeleElmar135mm said:

A quick question -  is the camera still useable when the internal memory fails?  If so, it's a problem. But when you can use SD-cards with damages internal memory, you have an alternative carry on making pictures

I was responding to the post above mine, and am happy with the M10 Monochrom.  

Jeff

[Kiwimac]

6 hours ago, rustyrus said:

How many IPAD's, Iphones, Samsung Phones, Tablets.  Computer SSD's etc have you seen fail? Internal memory is much more stable than anything removable and exposed to elements. 

 

I don't carry any SD cards anymore and love it! 

I had the SSD in a MacBook Pro fail. It happens. If it can happen to Apple, then it can definitely happen to Leica!
 

 

[rustyrus]

1 hour ago, Kiwimac said:

I had the SSD in a MacBook Pro fail. It happens. If it can happen to Apple, then it can definitely happen to Leica!
 

 

I’m sure you have….

[robsonj]

On 6/24/2023 at 11:12 AM, TeleElmar135mm said:

A quick question -  is the camera still useable when the internal memory fails?  If so, it's a problem. But when you can use SD-cards with damages internal memory, you have an alternative carry on making pictures

The internal memory is most useful, when I leave the house having forgotten to put the sd card back in the camera, this happened to me on my m11, I had no idea, on my return I opened the battery compartment to find no card in there, luckily my shots were on the internal memory, I then popped the sd card in, transferred them from internal to the card, and off I went, shoot saved

[Derbyshire Man]

On 6/21/2023 at 4:52 PM, DadDadDaddyo said:

Sorry for posting so long after this excellent review, but I really want to say I feel that in Jono's review work, combined with that of Sean Reid, we find the gold standard of knowledgeable reportage on these systems. Jono has the gift for capturing the ergonomics and feel of a system, while Reid's technical analysis of a given system is categorically in-depth.

Regarding metering. In the past I've used spot metering where available, including in-camera, with the understanding that the spot, if centered in the metering system, will deliver exposure at a certain, fixed point on a gray scale.

So one method I've used is employing the spot meter to check out different areas of a planned shot to get a sense for the dynamic range of the subject, and then placing the spot and metering on that location for placement on the scale, having used the quick scan around the subject to get a sense of where everything else will fall. Old habits acquired through the use of handheld spot meters in medium and large format work come home to roost for me here.

The only downside to using the spot metering is that it's a little time consuming although it can be sped up the more you use it. One quickly learns to find the high and low in the shot, and the clicks of the shutter speed dial or the f stop ring give you a sense of the range involved. 

All that said, I've been pleased to find that the Highlight-Weighted metering works surprisingly well when I've tried it. It may prove to be my go-to for situations requiring point-and-fire speed. And the touchscreen menu offers fast access to switching metering modes. 

Again, many thanks, Jono, for your continuing excellent work and service to this community! I'd like to ask you to pass along the same praise to the possibly-somewhat-reclusive Sean Reid. I spent a few years in Vermont myself, directly after a number of years in Alaska, so I do truly understand bloody-minded non-joiners and where they're coming from!

Heck, one of my view cameras was even built by that very epitome of the Vermont craftsman, the amazing Richard Ritter. 

Anyway, thanks again, and best wishes!

Sorry, realise this is a tumbleweed thread but I agree! Exactly how I did things with the T90 I had when I was 21 and the 1v when I was, er, quite a bit older! Spot meter highlight, shadow and grey, use the adjustment to decide what I wanted where in the dynamic range, the little triangles moving up and down to display. All of that was done with Leica stile LEDs and f stop was also displayed. I'd love to see that, even accepting the f stop would be only an approximation.

In fact I'm so pleased with my idea I'm going to put it in the M12 wishlist so I can be shot down in flames.

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