Where Does the M11 Put the S?

[John Smith]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

When Leica introduced the M10R, I suggested that it was the M, not the S that was driving innovation. Well, I got pilloried for that. "Technology always flows down from the S to the SL to the M," yada yada yada. So, question is, where does the M11 put the S now? It has just about as many megapixels as the S3 and has moved closer to its mirrorless brethren. Peter Karbe said in a Leica Australia video that Leica is looking at making everything smaller. You think this is it for the S line? 

[frame-it]

60mp on a 35mm sensor is not the same as 60+mp on a medium format sensor.

if Leica are sticking with Sony sensors, then who knows..maybe the S4 will be 100+mp?

 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[John Smith]

10 minutes ago, frame-it said:

60mp on a 35mm sensor is not the same as 60+mp on a medium format sensor.

if Leica are sticking with Sony sensors, then who knows..maybe the S4 will be 100+mp?

 

Maybe not. But if you were Leica, would you be more interested in expanding a 61MP 35mm/35mm APO mirrorless combination or trying to reinvigorate a mirrored system? I'm not knocking the S system. It's a legitimate question. 

[John McMaster]

I was getting interested in the M11, then I saw a shot on DPReview taken at 12,500 ISO - it looked terrible at 100%, nothing like what I would have expected from my several years old S(007)...

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/5740841570/leica-m11-pre-production-sample-gallery-dpreview-tv/0196737996

john

[Dsauro]

Leica Rumours has an article suggesting new camera’s being announced in 2022..including the SL, Q and S!  This could be very exciting.

[John Smith]

10 minutes ago, Dsauro said:

Leica Rumours has an article suggesting new camera’s being announced in 2022..including the SL, Q and S!  This could be very exciting.

Yes, I just saw that. You can barely see a card by the S on the upper righthand corner. If that's the case, I'm all in. Leica is much more ambitious than I thought.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[John Smith]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

25 minutes ago, John McMaster said:

I was getting interested in the M11, then I saw a shot on DPReview taken at 12,500 ISO - it looked terrible at 100%, nothing like what I would have expected from my several years old S(007)...

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/5740841570/leica-m11-pre-production-sample-gallery-dpreview-tv/0196737996

john

The 007 is very good, even said to have better DR than the S3 on PtoP. But I doubt that Leica will continue with the S as a mirrored system.

[mgrayson3]

Dpreview has a long history of making Leica's look bad. Remember the model with tiny hands holding the original SL? It looked like a FUJI GX680! I would also try to avoid comparing different resolution cameras at 100%. Having said all that, I'd still prefer the S(007) to any FF sensor camera ever built.

[John McMaster]

I think I do too, sold most of my M lenses so not looking to re-invest in that system 😉

john

[Pieter12]

The S is a different camera. It is a true SLR, with an optical viewfinder. Nothing else compares.

[ZHNL]

Very different camera! A new sports car will not invalid a truck.  

[Pieter12]

Are you calling the S a truck?

[ynp]

The S is a tank. 

[helged]

4 hours ago, John Smith said:

When Leica introduced the M10R, I suggested that it was the M, not the S that was driving innovation. Well, I got pilloried for that. "Technology always flows down from the S to the SL to the M," yada yada yada. So, question is, where does the M11 put the S now? It has just about as many megapixels as the S3 and has moved closer to its mirrorless brethren. Peter Karbe said in a Leica Australia video that Leica is looking at making everything smaller. You think this is it for the S line? 

Wasn't the point that S has a sensor size not used by anyone else? Therefore, to reduce the cost, the sensor waffle made for S has also been used for M. As I understand it, S006 and M9, S007 and M240, and S3 and M10R share sensors.M11 uses, again as I understand it, a 'commercially' available (Sony) sensor, whereas S4 or whatever may or may not be in the pipeline.

As long as Leica sticks to the original S sensor size, the next incarnation of S requires another specially made sensor. If not shared with M or SL or CL, the sensor expenses will be very high. The above is my understanding, but I could very well be wrong...

[Sarnian]

I see the S as a Rolls Royce - slow, heavy, built like a tank but comfortable. 

[ZHNL]

1 hour ago, Pieter12 said:

Are you calling the S a truck?

Yes, a cybertruck. 😅

[ZHNL]

54 minutes ago, helged said:

Wasn't the point that S has a sensor size not used by anyone else? Therefore, to reduce the cost, the sensor waffle made for S has also been used for M. As I understand it, S006 and M9, S007 and M240, and S3 and M10R share sensors.M11 uses, again as I understand it, a 'commercially' available (Sony) sensor, whereas S4 or whatever may or may not be in the pipeline.

As long as Leica sticks to the original S sensor size, the next incarnation of S requires another specially made sensor. If not shared with M or SL or CL, the sensor expenses will be very high. The above is my understanding, but I could very well be wrong...

If it is mirrorless they can use 100M Sony sensor  that all s glasses will cover it just fine. A brilliant one with lower cost ( I would believe). 
 

S glass may get a boost when that coming:)

[helged]

9 hours ago, ZHNL said:

If it is mirrorless they can use 100M Sony sensor  that all s glasses will cover it just fine. A brilliant one with lower cost ( I would believe). 
 

S glass may get a boost when that coming:)

+1. (but do we want a mirrorless S more than an S with optical viewfinder?) 

Edited January 16, 2022 by helged

[djmay]

10 hours ago, helged said:

 

Where did you get this information about M11 Sony sensor ? I doubt it comes from a person, who knows.

Edited January 16, 2022 by djmay

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[helged]

22 minutes ago, djmay said:

Where did you get this information about M11 Sony sensor ? I doubt it comes from a person, who knows.

Only what people tend to believe, from the 6k postings on the M11 thread. So the sensor could be from many manufacturers, whereas the S sensor is not an off-the-shelf product.