Leica M11: A Revolution – Review by Elmar S.

[Chaemono]

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vor 1 Minute schrieb duoenboge:

The M11 always shoots at 64MP. The other resolutions are internally simulated.
I have a few questions about this:
1. Same low light performance as 64 MP for all resolutions? No advantages with 36MP or 18MP. Is that correct?
2. The same for the risk of camera shake with longer focal lengths! No advantages with 36MP or 18MP. Is that correct?
3. Sensitivity to diffraction errors with small apertures the same as with 64MP! No advantages with 36MP or 18MP. Is that correct?
What are the advantages of this effort? Smaller Datafiles with 36 or 18MP?

For that they could have built a camera with a 36MP sensor right away.

 

They put the S3 sensor in it now?

[TeleElmar135mm]

Thanks for your answer before.

 

In the quick start guide is under the FN Button Assigments mentioned that that you can assign "Film Style" to the Thuumbwheel. Does this mean you have (like Nik silver-efex) a film style simulation or is it only to change saturation etc. ?

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[AndreasE]

Super Elmars😀

[cp995]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb Chaemono:

They put the S3 sensor in it now?

Or Q3?

[John Black]

Thank you for the review Elmars.  I have a question about how the M11 shutter "feels".  I have the M10-M and M10-R today, so those are my current reference points.  If shooting with the OVF (no EVF, no LV), then it's business as usual with the quiet shutter first used in the M10-P.

With the M11 and shooting in the same manner, shutter has to close, do a capture cycle, then re-open.  That's double the physical activity (vs the M10).  How would you describe the M11's shutter experience in terms of lag, vibration, cadence/timing and noise?  I'm struggling to understand how this can be better than the M10...

And second question, do you happen to know why Leica did not do Electronic First Curtain Shutter?  This seems such an obvious solution. Or perhaps Jono is a better person to answer this since it seems he was more involved during the latter development.  

Edited January 13, 2022 by John Black

[elmars]

vor 41 Minuten schrieb duoenboge:

1. Same low light performance as 64 MP for all resolutions? No advantages with 36MP or 18MP. Is that correct?
2. The same for the risk of camera shake with longer focal lengths! No advantages with 36MP or 18MP. Is that correct?
3. Sensitivity to diffraction errors with small apertures the same as with 64MP! No advantages with 36MP or 18MP. Is that correct?

1. Yes. Same results as the guys from RedDotForum, so I heard on their live show a few minutes ago. But these results came out from a early version of the firmware. Leica states better noise results at lower resolution an higher dynamic range. So perhaps they worked on this at the final firmware. (They usually work on the firmware after the end of the betatests).

2. Yes

3. Sorry I don´t know.

[elmars]

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb John Black:

And second question, do you happen to know why Leica did not do Electronic First Curtain Shutter?

Sorry, I don´t know.

vor 4 Minuten schrieb John Black:

How would you describe the M11's shutter experience in terms of lag, vibration, cadence/timing and noise?

This was a big discussion at the beta-testers. Noise is the same. The shutter operation is more complex so we thought at first it must be slower. Leica says it is the same due to their measurements. Jono and me think this is right. So says our practice and practical comparison with both cameras. Jono made a kind of measuring with his possibilities too. After a short time You get used to the different cadence of the shutter.

[fbonde]

Thank you very much for this review😃 

[elmars]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb elmars:

Sorry, I don´t know.

This was a big discussion at the beta-testers. Noise is the same. The shutter operation is more complex so we thought at first it must be slower. Leica says it is the same due to their measurements. Jono and me think this is right. So says our practice and practical comparison with both cameras. Jono made a kind of measuring with his possibilities too. After a short time You get used to the different cadence of the shutter.

Here a confirmation from Sean Reid:

 

[LocalHero1953]

4 hours ago, elmars said:

Shutter sound

But there is no free lunch.

After spending a couple of hours reading both your great reviews, joining the Leica UK launch webinar and reading other comments, this is where my mind has the greatest worries. What has happened to the traditional Leica 'snick' as you press the release? Can it still be a M if it doesn't sound the same? If it sounds as you describe it ("a short, very fast rumbling") will this be so existentially disturbing that one can't actually take pictures?

This is written very much tongue in cheek - but not entirely. I'm going to have to go and listen to it. 

[Herr Barnack]

A couple of days ago, I was thinking about the M11 and what we knew about it at that point in time; it occurred to me that it would not be going too far to call the new M flagship revolutionary.  The information we got from Wetzlar and the reviews that have been posted bear this out.

Back when the M10 Monochrom was released, I posted "Leica has turned the world of photography upside down" or words to that effect.

Leica has clearly done it again.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[elmars]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

After spending a couple of hours reading both your great reviews, joining the Leica UK launch webinar and reading other comments, this is where my mind has the greatest worries. What has happened to the traditional Leica 'snick' as you press the release? Can it still be a M if it doesn't sound the same? If it sounds as you describe it ("a short, very fast rumbling") will this be so existentially disturbing that one can't actually take pictures?

This is written very much tongue in cheek - but not entirely. I'm going to have to go and listen to it. 

Don´t worry about this. It is the same kind of sound, but more complex (because of more operation) in a very short time; Leica speeded it up very much. After a short while You get used to the different cadence of the shutter. You will not remember the difference.

[LocalHero1953]

Just now, elmars said:

Don´t worry about this. It is the same kind of sound, but more complex (because of more operation) in a very short time; Leica speeded it up very much. After a short while You get used to the different cadence of the shutter. You will not remember the difference.

I'll lie awake in bed worrying about it till I can hear it for myself😊

[BJohn]

3 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I'll lie awake in bed worrying about it till I can hear it for myself😊

Haha same applies to me - but that's very good news!

[BJohn]

55 minutes ago, John Black said:

And second question, do you happen to know why Leica did not do Electronic First Curtain Shutter?  This seems such an obvious solution. Or perhaps Jono is a better person to answer this since it seems he was more involved during the latter development.  

Interesting question indeed @jonoslack! Maybe something can be patched later on. I still need to listen to the sound, maybe it's not worth the worries 🙃!

Thanks for the great review!

[duoenboge]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Chaemono:

They put the S3 sensor in it now?

sorry 60MP.

[didier]

Thank you very much for your Review @elmars

Very informative et complimentary to Jono’s.

The mechanical shutter being always open, did you notice any dust issues ?

thanks

 

Didier

[BJohn]

I am very interested in trying that camera out. But I have to admit, that I am even more disappointed after seeing the keynote. The new shutter design is not mentioned, and it actually looks like and even sounds like the one from the M10P - which is not a bad thing in general. You can clearly hear the sound in a YouTube video from mathphotographer (starting sound of the camera) and when Ralph Gibson is photographing with the M11. It is, like @steven pointed out, like an M10P in a permanent LV mode. And - even though I can understand some of the hype (I even know people using an M camera just with the Visoflex...but that's a different chapter) - I am deeply disappointed.

Some of the soul left the M...most of you won't focus on the shutter sound or the whole mechanical working: hence it is for sure the best M camera money can buy. I have to get over it, but it will take time...!

Edited January 13, 2022 by BJohn

[cboy]

Thanks for your review. 

The colour seems to have more baked saturation than the M10.

Do you have a sample of shutter sound during operations?

Also how's the rolling shutter above and below 4000?

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[John Black]

8 hours ago, elmars said:

Sorry, I don´t know.

This was a big discussion at the beta-testers. Noise is the same. The shutter operation is more complex so we thought at first it must be slower. Leica says it is the same due to their measurements. Jono and me think this is right. So says our practice and practical comparison with both cameras. Jono made a kind of measuring with his possibilities too. After a short time You get used to the different cadence of the shutter.

Thank you for replying.

I'm not worried about the sound, it's the timing and physical sensation (tactile feedback).  The cadence and physical sensation with the M10-P/R/M when using LV or EVF is awkward.  I'll think the camera is done taking a shot, but it's still finishing up its work.  So when shooting with the EVF on the M10-R, etc., I have to make an extra to freeze for an added second to hopefully avoid adding some camera shake into the capture.  It feels very awkward compared to more casual flow with the OVF.

I'm guessing if it was horrible, then reviewers would delicately broach the topic.  So the lack of discussion - I'm hoping - means it's a non issue.  I had pre-order placed awhile back, so one or another I'll find out firsthand  

On a slightly different topic, in the DP Review video, they said the shutter was the original M10 shutter.  Then Leica Miami (David & Josh) said the shutter was the newer version used in the M10-M/R/P.  Do you know who is correct?