Sensor Corrosion Analysis and Fix [Merged]

[Jadon Rosado]

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a customer came in recently with an original non corroded M9 and he was kind enough to let me take some comparison shots....

the top is the original and the bottom is with the Red Dot conversion, both shot on a 35mm summicron asph at F/2 160 iso

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[P1505]

Hmm. Interesting. So it’s not the sensor but the glass.

I hear I have to pay customs duties when it comes back to me? If I could avoid that it could be an no brainer to get it done now. Seems a bit of a cheek to pay import duties on something I already own!

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[Raymondl]

12 minutes ago, P1505 said:

I hear I have to pay customs duties when it comes back to me? If I could avoid that it could be an no brainer to get it done now. Seems a bit of a cheek to pay import duties on something I already own!

Yeah I had to pay it with my repair. Prior to sending it for repair, I rang up the relevant government agency and got a confirmation that duties will need to be paid upon return of the camera. 

The cost may vary and it's best to ring your preferred courier company for an approx cost. If you want to know how much I paid (AUD) I have provided the itemised costs in my post (on this thread).

Edited December 4, 2020 by Raymondl

[P1505]

Cheers. I called up yesterday and they confirmed I’d have to pay duty on the difference in value the repair afforded, plus the cost of the repair. So you’re paying import duty on almost £2k, plus shipping. Wish somebody in the UK offered this service.

[michali]

17 hours ago, P1505 said:

Cheers. I called up yesterday and they confirmed I’d have to pay duty on the difference in value the repair afforded, plus the cost of the repair. So you’re paying import duty on almost £2k, plus shipping. Wish somebody in the UK offered this service.

It sounds good in theory, but has the potential to turn into a very expensive exercise. Make sure that you register the camera with customs before exporting/shipping.

I sent my MM1 with corroded sensor glass from South Africa to Leica in Germany in February this year. Leica insisted that I use UPS as they have some customs arrangement with them, it also made sense as they use UPS when they ship the camera back.

I asked UPS to register the camera with SA customs prior to shipping so that I would minimise duties on return. In addition Leica requested that I declare the camera at a nominal value of 1, 000- for German Customs. 

However when Leica returned the repaired camera to me they placed a value of €2, 200- (despite me asking them to ship it back at the same value that I sent it to them).  I ended up paying 30% import duty on that value, this was in addition to the repair costs of €1, 300-  & shipping to Germany.  I was not happy....

Edited December 6, 2020 by michali

[Marac]

Advanced Camera Services can replace the sensor glass, they are based in Norfolk UK.

They have successfully replaced the glass on an M9 Monochrome.

I own an M9 with corrosion, it has been booked in to be repaired in the new year, I will let you know how that goes.

I have been using this company for many years and know their technicians well enough to trust them.

I understand that the price is extremely competitive considering the other options around the world, especially with import duties and extra shipping costs to the buyer.

 

Have a great Xmas & new year, stay safe & be kind to each other.  

[Jarekjj]

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On 12/13/2020 at 12:01 PM, Marac said:

Advanced Camera Services can replace the sensor glass, they are based in Norfolk UK.

They have successfully replaced the glass on an M9 Monochrome.

I own an M9 with corrosion, it has been booked in to be repaired in the new year, I will let you know how that goes.

I have been using this company for many years and know their technicians well enough to trust them.

I understand that the price is extremely competitive considering the other options around the world, especially with import duties and extra shipping costs to the buyer.

 

Have a great Xmas & new year, stay safe & be kind to each other.  

How much they quoted for sensor glass replacement?

[Marac]

1 hour ago, Jarekjj said:

How much they quoted for sensor glass replacement?

You would have to contact them direct for that info, their number is 01953 889324

[mmradman]

Perhaps this is one for moderators to set up pinned up thread to provide information on resources that deal with M9 and derivatives cover glass corrosion repairs. I have no interest into M9 but as former user i would like the Camera to live on.

So far we know of three in USA, Jadon, Kolari and MaxMax and one in UK, ACS. 

If repair can be done in UK no point doing it in USA and other way round.  For those in other countries either one or other destination is probably preferable.

 

 

[dot-me-not]

Perhaps the M9 should be nicknamed the "Black Cat"? Or the "M9-Lives"? It seems to keep evading its demise  

[PeterMM1]

HI all,

I just joined this forum because I see there are possibly some options for repairing my MM1 with the sensor corrosion issue....
I contacted Leica last month only to find out that they can't replace my sensor.
I love my CCD with all it's quirks and would love to have it repaired.
I contacted William from Kolari Vision on Dec. 30 and was informed that currently they are not repairing the Monochrom only the M9.....He said that they are possibly looking to offer the service in a few months. My MM1 is not to bad and I can deal with the spots in PP for I want to get it fixed....
Does anyone have any other options???

[Marac]

Hello Peter, welcome to the forum.

If you are based in the USA then you may as well hold out until Kolari offer that service.

If you read through the thread you will see that there is a difference between the M9 and M9M with regard to the glue used to fix the sensor glass.

In the UK, ACS recently repaired an M9M with corrosion issue, it was made possible as the glue had perished and it was possible to remove it.

Apart from ACS, I know of no other option for the M9M or MM1

[PeterMM1]

Hi Marac, thanks for the response. I will hold out for Kolari to come up with a solution in the near future hopefully. 
I picked up an excellent M246 last week...I loved the battery life, response of the updated processor and all other upgrades but it doesn't quite feel the same as my quirky MM1 and give me the look from my files as I am used to. While it is a technically superior camera, I decided to return it and will continue using my MM1 as it is still very usable with some PP corrections when necessary.

My plan now will be to keep my MM1 forever and in another year or so ultimately pick up a used M10M as I have quite a collection of wonderful M mount lenses.....my wife thinks I have a problem and unfortunately she may be correct......Cheers!

I attached MM1/28mm Elmarit ...just one of my favorites...

 

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[Jaifoto]

On 11/26/2020 at 12:31 PM, dummilux said:

I contacted Leica in the US. Here is her info:

Stacey McHenry
Manager of Customer Care

Leica Camera Inc. | 1 Pearl Court Unit A | Allendale, NJ 07401 | USA

T +1 800 222 0118 | Direct Line +1 201 962 9922 | F +1 201 995 1984

stacey.mchenry@leicacamerausa.com

For the record, I just talked to Stacey at Leica NJ and she informed me that there are not doing anymore sensor glass replacements since they have no more.

[martinot]

On 11/27/2020 at 10:26 PM, dummilux said:

But then you won’t have an M9 anymore. Lol.

An M9 without sensor package glass corrosion is not a true M9. Not nearly the same character. Not genuine.

[boojum]

On 2/17/2021 at 9:48 AM, Jaifoto said:

For the record, I just talked to Stacey at Leica NJ and she informed me that there are not doing anymore sensor glass replacements since they have no more.

This is troubling as aftermarket techs are able to secure the glass and affect repairs.  Does anyone else find this strange?  It seems a hard to defend policy.

[dllewellyn]

The problem is that Leica doesn't know how to replace the coverglass.  They were replacing the entire sensor.  The company that made their sensors, OnSemi, stopped all CCD sensor production last year.  Once Leica ran out of stock, they can't repair.

Removing the coverglass without damaging the sensor is tricky because it is expoxied to the ceramic package and there are 1 mil gold bonding wires around the perimeter and about 1mm under the coverglass.  If you don't know what you are doing it is very easy to break one of those wires a kill the sensor.  Also, you can't touch the sensor surface.  To repair the gold wires you need a special and expensive wire bonding machine that ultrasonically welds the wire.

We have been converting cameras to monochrome for over 12 years and that requires removing the sensor coverglass.

Edited February 19, 2021 by dllewellyn

[TomB_tx]

Leica also didn't replace just the sensor, as they bought the sensors as part of the main circuit board assembly - they just replaced the board/sensor assembly. Such manufacturers are really "assemblers" that outsource circuit modules to companies that specialize in that technology. This isn't to criticize Leica, as they come from an optical/mechanical technical background, not based in modern electronics. Trusting suppliers to use their existing expertise is often a better choice than trying to develop the capability themselves.

I developed automated test equipment for a company without expertise to manufacture it, and sourced the actual product manufacture to companies that provide such service.

When the original Canon was developed the company had precision mechanical expertise, bot not optics expertise - so they sourced rangefinders and lenses to Nippon Kogaku - before that company developed their own camera line (Nikon). Later Canon bought an optics company.

Leica is still a fragile company who needs to specialize in what they do well.

[boojum]

2 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

Leica also didn't replace just the sensor, as they bought the sensors as part of the main circuit board assembly - they just replaced the board/sensor assembly. Such manufacturers are really "assemblers" that outsource circuit modules to companies that specialize in that technology. This isn't to criticize Leica, as they come from an optical/mechanical technical background, not based in modern electronics. Trusting suppliers to use their existing expertise is often a better choice than trying to develop the capability themselves.

I developed automated test equipment for a company without expertise to manufacture it, and sourced the actual product manufacture to companies that provide such service.

When the original Canon was developed the company had precision mechanical expertise, bot not optics expertise - so they sourced rangefinders and lenses to Nippon Kogaku - before that company developed their own camera line (Nikon). Later Canon bought an optics company.

Leica is still a fragile company who needs to specialize in what they do well.

If Leica can sub out construction, which they do, why can't they sub out repair?  It just has the appearance of lackluster customer support no matter how you characterize it.  Perhaps I expect too much from Wetzlar.  As manufacturers of what is purported to not only be the first small camera but also the best this seems to me to be inappropriate. But, as I say, I must be mistaken and unable to appreciate the complexities of the manufacture, sale and support of 35mm format cameras. I am hopeful that sometime soon the company can overcome its fragility and become able to make and repair cameras to a higher degree than now.  I'd hope that Wetzlar's fifteen years in the digital business will be a substantial foundation for future successes and stability.  Yes, one can only hope.  Perhaps they can borrow from the electro-optical knowledge of the microscope division which is quite sophisticated and under the same roof.

In the meantime fortunately there is competent after-market repair available to solve the disappointments of limited factory support.

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[Ko.Fe.]

3 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

Leica also didn't replace just the sensor, as they bought the sensors as part of the main circuit board assembly - they just replaced the board/sensor assembly. Such manufacturers are really "assemblers" that outsource circuit modules to companies that specialize in that technology. This isn't to criticize Leica, as they come from an optical/mechanical technical background, not based in modern electronics. Trusting suppliers to use their existing expertise is often a better choice than trying to develop the capability themselves.

I developed automated test equipment for a company without expertise to manufacture it, and sourced the actual product manufacture to companies that provide such service.

When the original Canon was developed the company had precision mechanical expertise, bot not optics expertise - so they sourced rangefinders and lenses to Nippon Kogaku - before that company developed their own camera line (Nikon). Later Canon bought an optics company.

Leica is still a fragile company who needs to specialize in what they do well.

Zeiss recently came out with giant FF P&S. I doubt it has something to do with original Zeiss. 

Leica has re-branded Panasonic cameras and Meitz flashes. It could be extended. If not already. Somehow Q is using Panasonic batteries.