Sensor Corrosion Analysis and Fix [Merged]

[dllewellyn]

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You must have a friend inside Leica!  Any chance you can get them to not throw away the corroded M9 sensors or trade-in cameras?

[BrianS]

14 hours ago, dllewellyn said:

You must have a friend inside Leica!  Any chance you can get them to not throw away the corroded M9 sensors or trade-in cameras?

I wish!

I actually saw these instructions on this forum over 5 years ago. I remembered how to find it. When I used it: I needed to reload the firmware on the camera when I was at v1.174. Other members posted that later versions did not need the reload, that debug mode ends when you turn the camera off. The file saved is DNG, slightly more columns and rows in the image: Lightroom could open it directly. When shooting a slow shutter speed, two DNG files are stored: the actual image, and the "Noise Image" that it uses to find hot pixels.

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[rramesh]

On 9/24/2020 at 3:26 AM, dllewellyn said:

I will see what I can do.  Keep in mind that with three cameras, that means that each example means swapping the lens onto 3 different bodies.  One could easily spend a day just capturing photographs, and I have customers waiting on me for other stuff as well (not to mention dealing with vendors, A/P, A/R, accounting, pick and packing shipments, R&D, emptying the trashcans, etc).

For those familiar with the M9 RAW format, how RAW is it exactly (there is always some processing done even on RAW images so you never actually see the real RAW data off the sensor)?  Other than aperture, focus and shutter speed, are there other settings that would change a RAW file?  For JPG, what are the preferred test settings?  If there is a Leica person in the NYC/NJ area who wants to come to my building and try getting all the requested pictures, you can contact me.

For lenses, I currently have a TTArtisan 35mm F/1.4, Voigtlander Nokton 50m F/1.5, Voigtlander 75mm F/1.5 and am waiting on delivery of a Leica 50mm/F2.4, but probably won't see that lens for another week or so because it is coming from Hong Kong.

You will absolutely need to take pictures with wider Leica lenses like the 21 SEM and 28 Cron. 

[dllewellyn]

No Problem.  PSL (Please Send Lens).

[dllewellyn]

A few pics from M9 Color corroded sensor converted to monochrome.  Nice riding weather now.

 

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[rramesh]

It would be useful to take some pictures that are focused and sharp.

[dllewellyn]

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There are some sharp stills.  When you are riding, the blur captures the experience.  Keep in mind - these are all hand held shots including the ones while driving.  You should try it!  That isn't a Photoshop Blur filter - that's real life.

 

[criolf]

1 hour ago, dllewellyn said:

There are some sharp stills.  When you are riding, the blur captures the experience.  Keep in mind - these are all hand held shots including the ones while driving.  You should try it!  That isn't a Photoshop Blur filter - that's real life.

 

You're trying to sell a service here, and an expensive one at that, and I consider you do yourself a disservice by not properly answering a very valid question (that I subscribe to as well).

This thread does not concern photography skill or post-processing preference, but strictly technical lab results.

I too would have expected jpegs right out of the camera with exif listed, before and after the repair/conversion, to show what and how well it was done, and so much more that was discussed extensively here, so your potential clients (that's why we're all here I suspect) can judge the expertise and quality of your service and engage you.

And to expand on the subject of cost and your services - except the corrosion repair (considering the "basic" package rather than the other options), are there any CLA's or services you perform for the cameras? As a departure point for my question, please see below what Leica was offering for the quoted price (same as yours if I'm not mistaking) before they ran out of sensors to replace (and it was an actual replacement of the entire sensor rather than just the corroded filter):

M9P sensor replacement repair include the following:-

Necessary repair:
The general overhaul of the Leica M camera includes the following items:
Replacement of printed circuit & leather covering
Cleaning and overhaul of the shutter cocking mechanisms
Cleaning and maintenance/repair of the multifunction wheel
Cleaning of the main switch and shutter speed dial
Adjustment of the baseplate locking system
Refurbishment of engravings
Renewal of the protective film on the baseplate
Maintenance/repair of viewfinder displays

[dllewellyn]

Actually, I wasn't trying to sell a service - I was sharing some pictures.  I do not run a camera repair shop with the possible exception that I can perform certain sensor modifications.  I don't have access to factory service manuals, parts and such.  Some brands, such as Nikon, will not even sell spare parts (they stopped selling parts about 8 years ago) and insist all repairs are done in-house.  I have an optical technology company with over 450 different products including modified cameras, filters, lights, lenses, phosphors and dyes,   Many of the products pertain to the ultraviolet and infrared spectrum.  I convert a variety of cameras to full spectrum UV-VIS-IR, IR-Only, UV-Only, High Res (removing the AA filter), hyperspectral, multispectral, precision agriculture and monochrome.  I have 8 different spectrometers covering 150 - 1800nm, 5 light integration spheres, tunable light sources, liquid crystal tunable filters and a whole lot more.

[swatch]

Reading / following this topic up to now from the very beginning, my conclusion is better to take either replacement offer or upgrade offer from Leica for my M9 with sensor corrosion.

Life is short, let's spend more time and effort in taking more pictures.

[kristyansen]

Am 5.10.2020 um 02:45 schrieb dllewellyn:

A few pics from M9 Color corroded sensor converted to monochrome.  Nice riding weather now.

 

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Thank you - it shows the spirit of the original M9 sensor shining through. It would be great to see people photos too and understand the settings (especially ISO).

Thank you Dan in advance for additionally posting color photos before and after (including people) to also understand the effect of the color replacement on color and sensitivity. This is so important for a high price service - I am sure it will prove the value so it is really a good time investment. 

[Raymondl]

I got my camera back from Kolari Vision. Here is a summary of my findings:

Overall my satisfaction: 10/10 Fantastic

• Colours/colors: Looks fine to me (IMO like original)
• AWB: No changes required (IMO like original)
• Corrosion: No (Fixed)
• Focus calibration: N/A felt fine (IMO like original)

Album

Physical evidence - https://photos.app.goo.gl/3jQiE8XWACPMq4bG8

Processed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/a7buKra5NGHL9uey8

Unprocessed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/DRuL4CS53VHk8zfv8

 

Please read through my detailed breakdown.

Detailed breakdown:

 

Take my recommendation like any recommendation. With a handful of salt.

it’s always important to understand the context of how an output is derived (for me anyhow). What’s important for you, may not for me.

I have documented my “methodology” on how I have went my way on making my own personal determination, that’s aligned with how I use the camera.

 

My “Test” parameters:

1 - lenses (only Leica)

-Leica 50mm (type iv)

-Leica 35mm 1.4 (pre-ASPH)

-I do have a 7artisan lens, but I’ll keep my “test shots” using only Leica lenses

-I won’t be trying on any other lenses, as I don’t have any..  happy to accept any donations (joke!)

-Refer to EXIF data to see which lens

 

2 - Aperture will range from F2 - F10

-I don’t shoot at F16 so I will only be shooting where I normally shoot at.. more specifically where I wasn’t able to shoot with great confident due to the sensor

-EXIF data should be visible in google photos

 

3 - Raw only

-No jpegs and raw files won’t be provided

-Files will be processed to my liking but I’ll have 2 albums.. one for processed and another one straight out of camera (LR raw conversion no edits)

-My definition of “processed”:

Adjustment for exposure, shadows, highlight, white balance (if it’s not accurate), so technically if you compare the “non-processed” albums you will see a difference

 

My testing phases:

To make a determination, there needs to be a set of tests that gets undertaken to support the claim. These tests take a considerable amount of time to prepare and perform. My process is fairly informal and I’ll start with what’s personally important to me.

 

-Phase 1 -  Park photography (initial assessment)

-Phase 2 - Family and friends (todo)

-Phase 3 - Urban photography (todo)

-Phase 4 - Street Photography (todo)

In the future as I have more time to perform “test shots”, I’ll add more pictures into the existing albums

 

My assessment process

I’ll outline what’s important for me, there are a lot of limitations.. due to lack of controls in my testing methodology.

 

1 - Colours/colors ?

Technically if you wanted to do a proper comparison you would have at a minimum 3 x Leica M9

• Original sensor
• Sensor replaced by Leica
• Fixed sensor from company A
• Fixed sensor from company B

Shoot a colour/color chart and then do a three way comparison, let people vote and then present the results (would be fun)

Unfortunately I won’t be doing that, and therefore it will be fairly subjective. I don’t have a control mechanism or plan on defining one. I “only” have 1 x Leica M camera and that’s the M9.

Additionally No. I won’t be comparing it to another camera that I have (e.g iPhone 11, Sony, Fujifilm, Nikon), as that would be detracting from my goal.

 

2 - Corner sharpness (exclusion)

I won’t be discussing this, as it’s not my main goal of shooting with a Leica M9. If this is really important to you, it’s best you wait for proper review.

From my perspective there are modern lenses and sensors that can better deliver the edge to edge sharpness that you might desire.

The purpose of my tests are to satisfy how I use my M9 and not a full 360 degree assessment trying to cater every photographer out there.

Basically in short. No. I won’t be shooting brick walls.

 

3 - Impacts to low light (exclusion)

I won’t be commenting on this directly again as I shoot at iso 640 (max) and then push the raw files in post.

Additionally Kolar vision has put out a statement mentioning a 1/4 stop loss of light. If you want to challenge this claim in a “tightly controlled” environment, you will need multiple M9’s.

I will accept Kolar Vision’s claim.

 

4 - AWB (auto white balance) colour shifts

I’ll discuss briefly what I observed to the white balance, I tend to be pleased with the original sensor AWB. I’ll also take note of any noticeable color/colour shifts. For reference when I used my M9, I would only do “minor” adjustments and rarely modify the colours as I was relatively happy with the raw look.

Additionally kolar vision also provides modifications to A7/fujifilm for a thinner sensor stack.. this had significantly impacted the AWB.

So this might be a deal breaker for some M9 users who don’t want to modify WB in raw OR shoot with JPEG. I’ll report my personal findings.

 

5 - Fix for the corrosion

I’ll comment on if I can see any “visible” signs on the actual sensor in addition to any artefacts at F8-F10.

 

6 - Focus calibrated ?

As the camera had to be dismantled during the process, I’ll check if the camera has been calibrated correctly for my lenses: 35 and 50mm

 

7 - Skin tones (partially included)

Will take more time (so you might need to wait till someone else shares their findings).

Technically you will need to shoot a wide variety of different skin colours.. if I was a professional photographer doing portrait work.. catering for a diverse market .. it would be fairly easy to test . But I am not.

 

 

My background

Like any advice it’s important to have context about the source, and it helps to get abit more of an insight about “me”.

-no affiliation with Kolari Vision

-first time customer

-I live in Australia

-I work in the IT industry (software engineer/App design/problem solving)

-Amateur photographer (10 years) official job title is “Instagram husband - Augustine.sidik”

-Shoot about approximately 40k frames a year

-I rotate my camera and lenses weekly, so I don’t exclusively shoot with Leica (Nikon,Sony,Fujifilm, Leica)

-I use LR classic

-Photography genre: tend to shoot everything except for brick walls

-I got a young family, so time is pretty limited

 

APPENDIX / MISC / Custom & duties

As I live in Australia, outlined below was my experience with customs etc

-Getting it there (Australia Post Express)

I wanted to insure it, however It was enforced that the insured amount should be close to the actual declared value. I ended up sending it to Kolari vision uninsured and declared the camera as $1.

I didn’t want to be stung by customs and duties, as I have heard situations where even if the parcel was marked as “repairs”.. customs still applied (in US).

-Wait time

Communication with Kolari Vision was great, I didn’t have any major issues. It was highlighted that they have been inundated with more orders. However that just meant it was going to take abit longer.

-My timeline

15/09/20 Payment made to Kolari Vision

17/09/20 Camera was sent (Aus -> USA)

22/09/20 Camera received

10/10/20 Camera processed/Order completed

12/10/20 Payment made to DHL (AUS Custom & duties)

13/10/20 Camera received (USA->AUS)

-Getting the camera back (custom and duties)

As part of the service, the camera was delivered via DHL. All custom & duties will be paid by the customer (me). The camera was insured for $ 1000 USD.

DHL sent me an email requesting additional clarification. Specifically how much was the camera worth prior to repair ? As I had sent it to US uninsured and specified the value as $1.00 in the end I had to pay $247.99 AUD (breakdown below)

Cost breakdown:

GST ON IMPORTATION (TX) - $137.99

AUST GOVT CHARGES (L1) - $88.00

DISBURSEMENT FEE (AV) - $20.00

GST - $2.00

Total - $247.99 + 1.1% credit card fee

Note: using bank transfer will require payment to be cleared prior to item being released

 

-Why kolar vision ? (warning: highly subjective)

Prior to the M9 repair announcement, I was already researching (due to curiosity) their IR conversion, in addition to “ultra thin sensor stack” for Sony. All these services were all well received (based on my research) from (my) trusted online sources.

I assumed that at this point they had performed a fair amount of “replacing/removal of sensor glass” at scale, and were in a good position to capitalise their expertise on addressing the M9 issues.

Additionally If there were something to go wrong with my repair, as with any forms of repairs there would be a recourse.

But yes it was a gamble as there weren’t any reviews…. given how new the servicing offering is..

 

Was it worth it ?

After spending around $1,850 AUD when you including the shipping and duties.. that’s a considerably amount of money (for me anyhow). I never did it for financial gain (buy a cheap M9 + repair to flip for a profit), the fix based on my preliminary testing delivers the results I wanted.

 

Closing statements

Hope you found this useful. If it hasn’t, then you may want to get your camera repaired and share your own personal opinions. I’ll be quite keen on hearing other members on their own personal experiences.

[kristyansen]

I want to really congratulate and thank Raymond for the well thought-out, greatly structured, example-supported and unselfishly shared results of this emerging approach. Higly appreciated. 

[rramesh]

Brilliant! Thanks for your review, sample photos and a clear explanation of the process.

[jaapv]

Note that the Monochrom M9 uses Linear DNG whereas the M9 uses Raw DNG. The Linear DNG format can hold more non-image data. I do not know why Leica made this choice.

 

 

On 9/24/2020 at 10:27 PM, BrianS said:

The DNG files from the M9 and M Monochrom are very close to raw. Turn off lens coding to get rid of any corrections for vignetting and color shift. 

There is also a "Debug" mode "back door"  that you can try. This produced DNG files that have no corrections applied. This includes bad pixel mapping- left out.

The sequence to enter this factory service mode with the buttons on the back of the camera is as follows:

Delete -> up (2x) -> down (4x) -> left (3x) -> right (3x) -> Info

 

[Raymondl]

[14-10-2020] I have added additional images to the existing albums today as the lighting conditions were more optimal . 

[14-10-2020] Tests @ ISO 640

As part of my “rolling review” I have started testing the camera in “low light” conditions - typically at F2 1/125 @ ISO640 (exposed ~ - 1 EV)

I started noticing some of the well documented “bad pixel column” appearing in my photos. It appears that there were several different fixes that Leica did.. they included but not limited to:

-Firmware update to remap the bad pixel (I.e send Leica a DNG, they then send through an “personalised” firmware fix)

-Sensor replacement

-[Some users] It might go away with time

-[Some users] Reset + long exposures will make it go away

Looking at my previous files shot with my M9 (prior to the fix) I couldn’t see this digital artefact appearing at all ISO's.

NOW I don’t know whether this was caused by the procedure, but one thing I do know is.... this has been happening for a very very long time ..Leica M8 ...and other camera manufacturers (once it reaches a “max value” it will start appearing).

I want to avoid any speculations or debates but I wanted to outline what “worked” for me.

Communication:

-14-10-20 I have contacted Kolari Vision to inform them of my findings (attached picture). But I am suspecting it has nothing to do with their procedure.

Observations:

-it appears at all ISO’s it’s just more difficult to find the "column" when I was shooting during the day

-it’s more visible when shooting at ISO 640 especially in the shadows

Solution:

Pixel fixer - “Solution” (that worked for me)

Q. What is it ?

-Windows tool called “pixel fixer” (free)

-This tool has the capability of going through all your M9 DNG’s at a folder level to remove the hot strip (“bad pixel column”)

-Additionally there are other options on what you want to do with the original file (I’ll get to that in abit”

 

Q. How do you set it up?

-As the exact location of the “column” will vary, you will need to setup a “baseline file”

-This "baseline file" is then used by "pixel fixer" to determine where exactly is the column (coordinates in pixels) is located

-To setup a baseline photo we want a “black” image so that the column is visible. This will make it easier for the software the find the coordinates. I just shot with your lens cap on + ISO 640 (job done)

-Upon selecting the pixels, you will then need to go to settings in the “pixel fixer” [top tip] make sure each of the pixels (4) has “vertical” selected (I forgot to select this initially, that’s why it wasn’t “working”)

Outcome: pixel fixer now knows exactly where the “column” is for your specific camera

 

Q. What does it mean for my workflow

Abit more annoying for me...

My setup:

-I use a Mac

-I store my photos on my NAS

-I use LR

 

My Workflow

Stage 1 - Import - filter & edit in LR process (no change)

-Import files from SD card to LR [DD-MM_M9]

-filter and edit (as per norm)

 

Stage 2 - [NEW] When you are ready to export In LR

-Goal: we are ready to “export the images”, we now need to use “pixel fixed” to “remove” these columns.

-Steps:

-open “pixel fixer” [windows] select “folder”, go to the folder where the photos are stored

-I like to select “delete” the original files to “recycling bin” once the “fixed” DNG files have been exported

-hit Run and wait till it’s completed

-Outcome: All your DNG file name and metadata will remain the same but it will have the “fix”, the original DNG files they had the “column defect” will now appear in your recycling bin (safety net - just in case).

 

Stage 3 - Export process (no change)

-In LR I just hit export... as all the file names are the same the exported files will look fine (I.e without the “column defect”)

-End.

 

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[kristyansen]

My M9 used to have vertical columns several years ago due to dead pixels - during service Leica ‚remapped’ the sensor indeed without problems. 

I guess it is important for the M9 sensor repair services not to change the firmware in any way (even the previously mentioned debug mode to reset to factory settings should not be done IMHO). Do you have more insights from the service provider if there was any change? 

Also wondering if Leica would be ready to remap a sensor modified by 3rd party?
 

 

[dllewellyn]

Changing the sensor ICF/Coverglass won't have any effect on the pixel mapping assuming no damage to the sensor during the process and assuming the glass is really clean.  BTW, getting the glass really clean is a big challenge because the glass is so close to the sensor that tiny specs electrostatically bound to the glass.  You can't just use clean room swabs and wipes to clean.  When we installed a Class 100 clean bench in 2005, the next week a competitor said they had one too.  Buyer beware.

To change pixel mapping, you would either need that function built-in to the camera or you need factory software.  Somehow, I doubt Leica is going to make the software available.

[Raymondl]

2 hours ago, kristyansen said:

My M9 used to have vertical columns several years ago due to dead pixels - during service Leica ‚remapped’ the sensor indeed without problems. 

I guess it is important for the M9 sensor repair services not to change the firmware in any way (even the previously mentioned debug mode to reset to factory settings should not be done IMHO). Do you have more insights from the service provider if there was any change? 

Also wondering if Leica would be ready to remap a sensor modified by 3rd party?
 

 

Hi thanks for your response — specifically sharing your prior experiences with the M9. 

There wasn’t anything done on the M9 from a firmware perspective by the service provider. Additionally test shots were conducted pre/post procedure and the column defect did not show up in the DNG files.
 

Something might have happened between (USA - AUS). Unfortunately for me, I’ll have to accept it especially with the amount of documented cases..my documented fix isn’t great, but it’s not as bad (“one click”) as I initially thought it was going to be. 
 

Re: Leica will be ready to remap a sensor modified by a 3rd party

- Researching in depth - I found they only support certain (more modern) M cameras (source: this forum) so this would exclude legacy digital M’s... M8,M9

[warning: my opinions]
-In a scenario that they did pt#1: I would imagine this would not be done for “free”, well at least there would be some form of charges (shipping/custom & duties) in addition to the service. This might have been a different outcome when the sensor replacement program was still active and widely publicised.

-In a scenario that they did pt#2: I would expect/anticipate that they will not touch a camera that has been modified/fixed outside of Leica certified repairer (e.g  only the stores located on the “Leica Customer Care - Repairs & Services”)

 

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[BrianS]

On 10/14/2020 at 1:44 PM, kristyansen said:

My M9 used to have vertical columns several years ago due to dead pixels - during service Leica ‚remapped’ the sensor indeed without problems. 

I guess it is important for the M9 sensor repair services not to change the firmware in any way (even the previously mentioned debug mode to reset to factory settings should not be done IMHO). Do you have more insights from the service provider if there was any change? 

Also wondering if Leica would be ready to remap a sensor modified by 3rd party?
 

 

The bad pixel mapping is preserved when doing a firmware update. This is true on my M9. The bad column was visible in Debug mode, and was corrected once I did the formware reload. 

If loading new firmware erased the bad pixel mapping, then every camera with a bad pixel would have to be sent to Leica for updates. They do not- the pixel mapping is preserved.