jaapv Posted August 25, 2018 Share #81 Posted August 25, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think that Nikon has done something more fundamental which will have this camera eating into -for instance- Canon sales. It has taken a huge step forward in Video-Stills integration by offering on-sensor PDAF and 10-bit log recording. This is one field where Leica is lagging seriously behind - and it is the future, the converging of photography and videography. The moment is not far away that a photograph will be a video grab, in fact Panasonic has taken it quite a bit in that direction already, albeit in 4K/JPG MFT only. It would be great if Leica could get that technology into an SL2 (and preferably CL2) , but I fear that it is not going to happen. 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 25, 2018 Posted August 25, 2018 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Nikon Z6, Z7 and Leica SL ..... (merged). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Wojtek Posted August 25, 2018 Share #82 Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) If a Leica SL owner were to switch to the new Nikon's based on the recent announcement (of 2 cameras and 3 lenses), they would have already switched to the A7III or A7RIII a few months ago. Only existing Nikon shooters are excited with this (non-)news. Not really and no, in my opinion. Ad 1. Leica SL is like A7, but less technology, better build, better ergonomics, better menus. Nikon is like SL, but better technology. Nikon actually delivers on what Leica users could value a lot - build quality - ergonomics - simpler menus - (probably) good lenses - not being Sony While also adding all the Sony’s bells and whistles. I see Z6 (IMO more important model) as taking SLs quality (OF COURSE not all of it but it’s surely between SL and A7), making it smaller, adding ALL of the a7 technology and keeping a7 price. But yeah, sure, one card slot. As 2. I see it more like this: if I were a photography enthusiast / half-pro looking for an upgrade from my 5yo APS-C DSLR, one week ago Sony A7iii was without any reasonable doubt my best bet in $2000 price range. And Nikon just probably stole that title from Sony. By simply releasing their own A7iii (stats are almost exactly the same), but with better build quality, better ergonomics, better menus and the brand not being Sony (because as we can surely see in this topic as well: we’re emotional. No one in photography history ever truly “loved” Sony. But some people still really respect Nikon) PS. I dislike Sony. But I’d be blind not to notice how great A7iii is. I also value innovation a lot. That’s what Leica did with SL (or T! Or Q!), and that’s definitely NOT what Nikon did yesterday. Zero innovation there. But I think they’ve done their homework and released not innovative, but exceptionally great product. Edited August 25, 2018 by Wojtek 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted August 25, 2018 Share #83 Posted August 25, 2018 I don't think Leica has a choice but to up the ante on the SL2, otherwise they will quickly become outpaced. Don't expect Canon to be resting on its laurels..... You can bet your bottom $ that Leica Camera AG's SL2 has been in development for several years and its 'upped ante' will be 'box office' and ready to outmatch the 'new FF mirrorless kids on the block' i.e. Nikon … and the likely soon to be announced Canon. And given that all current and forthcoming FF mirrorless cameras rely on third party components and know-how e.g. EVFs, each manufacturer likely knows much about their competitors' plans. dunk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 25, 2018 Share #84 Posted August 25, 2018 I think that Nikon has done something more fundamental which will have this camera eating into -for instance- Canon sales. It has taken a huge step forward in Video-Stills integration by offering on-sensor PDAF and 10-bit log recording. This is one field where Leica is lagging seriously behind - and it is the future, the converging of photography and videography. The moment is not far away that a photograph will be a video grab, in fact Panasonic has taken it quite a bit in that direction already, albeit in 4K/JPG MFT only. It would be great if Leica could get that technology into an SL2 (and preferably CL2) , but I fear that it is not going to happen. Just an example of using the Video for stills: This is on the Panasonic GX8 using the Summilux 25. never mind the colour balance, this is LED light. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/287757-nikon-z6-z7-and-leica-sl-merged/?do=findComment&comment=3579070'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 25, 2018 Share #85 Posted August 25, 2018 And now 4K Post-Focus stack (Video) (as i said only to demonstrate "DOF", never mind the rest). Handheld, BTW, so the video was slightly wobbly. f 5.6. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I'm just beginning to learn this technique, the potential is immense. I wish I could do this using my CL... 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I'm just beginning to learn this technique, the potential is immense. I wish I could do this using my CL... ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/287757-nikon-z6-z7-and-leica-sl-merged/?do=findComment&comment=3579073'>More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted August 25, 2018 Share #86 Posted August 25, 2018 IBIS for me has always been terrible and prone to breaking in the field. I've been using the Sony a7II and a7rII for the last three years; I've had no problems with the IBIS and it's proven to be very beneficial. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajayk Posted August 25, 2018 Share #87 Posted August 25, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes that I agree. Being a user of Leica as well as Nikon for 40 years now, its M lenses that keep me glued to it. But my only point is whether SL qualifies for the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajayk Posted August 25, 2018 Share #88 Posted August 25, 2018 After going thru many first look reviews of Nikon, most reviewers are talking about the new big 55mm mount. Bigger mount than Sony means more light with the same sensor. One reviewer has even contemplated whether this bigger mount is a precursor to a new MF sensor in future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 25, 2018 Share #89 Posted August 25, 2018 MF needs 60-65 mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabe Posted August 25, 2018 Share #90 Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) Well, at the moment I only would love to have more resolution, which for us landscape photographers is always good to have. That said, I have now an exhibition open with images the smallest of which has 60x90 cm of printed area, mostly done with the SL and none of which made me wanting for more pixels to get the prints to look great. this is true Vieri! Very often we lose the "true purpose" of photography: the photos must be printed! We're talking about megapixels and details seen on a 200% monitor, but it's not the amount of megapixels that makes a great print. Recently I bought 50SL and 90SL and I printed many photos (fine art print), their quality is higher than what I get with my Canon 5D MkIV and my previous Sony A7 rIII. When someone enters my house is immediately attracted by the photos taken with the SL Edited August 25, 2018 by cabe 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted August 25, 2018 Share #91 Posted August 25, 2018 F1.8 is "medium speed" ? Yes, when your marquee lens announcement is for a f/0.95 lens (two stops faster). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajayk Posted August 25, 2018 Share #92 Posted August 25, 2018 I think that Nikon has done something more fundamental which will have this camera eating into -for instance- Canon sales. It has taken a huge step forward in Video-Stills integration by offering on-sensor PDAF and 10-bit log recording. This is one field where Leica is lagging seriously behind - and it is the future, the converging of photography and videography. The moment is not far away that a photograph will be a video grab, in fact Panasonic has taken it quite a bit in that direction already, albeit in 4K/JPG MFT only. It would be great if Leica could get that technology into an SL2 (and preferably CL2) , but I fear that it is not going to happen. Canon is long gone. Canon 5D IV is way behind Nikon 850. Canon 1dx Mark II is probably the only good pro model as Canon has nothing to compare with Nikon D750 or Nikon D500. Canon 5DSR is also now 4-5 years old. But I am sure they will bounce back soon enough. Sony is the one which is under threat from Nikon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted August 25, 2018 Share #93 Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) I think that Nikon has done something more fundamental which will have this camera eating into -for instance- Canon sales. It has taken a huge step forward in Video-Stills integration by offering on-sensor PDAF and 10-bit log recording. This is one field where Leica is lagging seriously behind - and it is the future, the converging of photography and videography. The Leica SL was the first SLR camera to offer 10-bit log recording to an external recorder. Not Sony, not Panasonic, definitely not Nikon. Leica isn't behind, they established the benchmark. Nikon is just now catching-up. If anything, 10-bit log has run its course. Videographers now expect RAW output; or even better onboard RAW recording. Blackmagic offers that on its video-only cameras. PDAF is a decent improvement, and I expect that the next SL will offer this feature, but it's not a panacea for video. The best use case, which you see demonstrated in reviews, is for video blogs: the speaker holds an object up to the lens to show a detail, and then takes it away. PDAF cameras track those shots very smoothly. If your shot is more complicated (multiple subjects in the frame, none of which are dead-centre), then PDAF is just as confused as CDAF. The way around this is to continuously tell the camera where to focus using the touch screen (or a smartphone app). Not much different from pulling focus manually, but still quite useful for some shots, like macro or remote work. Edited August 25, 2018 by BernardC 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonescapes Posted August 25, 2018 Share #94 Posted August 25, 2018 I don't have much of a horse in the Leica race since I've mostly switched away from using my Leica gear (I use my K1 when I need high-res and my A7S with Loxia lenses when I need a relatively discreet camera that thrives in available light), but my take on the Z7/Z6: Meh. Good for them getting into mirrorless, competition is great. This will keep some Nikon folks in the Nikon ecosystem. I don't think it will win many new mirrorless customers away from Sony. That said, The Z mount will definitely be the best mount out there for adapted glass thus far. Someone said it will work at a level similar to the Sony cameras. This may be true at standard and telephoto focal lengths, But the significantly larger mount diameter should make wide angle lens adapt with much fewer problems. With the Sony bodies, a lot of legacy glass wider than 35mm didn't work very well. On the Nikon, a lot of those lenses should look just as good as their narrower counterparts. To the person who said they love their DF -- there are a handful of us on the board. My DF has the 1.2x eyepiece, a split prism focusing screen, and I always shoot with a chipped, Leitaxed 50 Summicron-R that has the almost-auto-aperture feature. Great fun, and absolutely stunning results. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted August 25, 2018 Share #95 Posted August 25, 2018 Are you a lens designer? Yes. And my family. For decades. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 25, 2018 Share #96 Posted August 25, 2018 More business for Kolari Vision if they decide to do UT modded versions of these Nikon cameras. Great sensor, great EVF, IBIS, and better ergonomics than Sony mirrorless IMO. More choice for shooting Leica manual lenses would be good also for resale value of Leica M glass. Got to love great, honest competition. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted August 25, 2018 Share #97 Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) Yes. And my family. For decades. \ What types of lenses have you been designing and for how many for decades? Can you name them and post some pics … please? Are they camera lenses … or sunglasses … or why? dunk Edited August 25, 2018 by dkCambridgeshire Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted August 25, 2018 Share #98 Posted August 25, 2018 \ What types of lenses have you been designing and for how many for decades? Can you name them and post some pics … please? Are they camera lenses … or sunglasses … or why? dunk I suspect you took the bait.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 25, 2018 Share #99 Posted August 25, 2018 The Leica SL was the first SLR camera to offer 10-bit log recording to an external recorder. Not Sony, not Panasonic, definitely not Nikon. Leica isn't behind, they established the benchmark. Nikon is just now catching-up. If anything, 10-bit log has run its course. Videographers now expect RAW output; or even better onboard RAW recording. Blackmagic offers that on its video-only cameras. PDAF is a decent improvement, and I expect that the next SL will offer this feature, but it's not a panacea for video. The best use case, which you see demonstrated in reviews, is for video blogs: the speaker holds an object up to the lens to show a detail, and then takes it away. PDAF cameras track those shots very smoothly. If your shot is more complicated (multiple subjects in the frame, none of which are dead-centre), then PDAF is just as confused as CDAF. The way around this is to continuously tell the camera where to focus using the touch screen (or a smartphone app). Not much different from pulling focus manually, but still quite useful for some shots, like macro or remote work. I wouldn't presume to list the need of high-level videographers, nor those of professional product photographers. My point is that video and still will converge in the near future, especially when video output can be raw (8K?) as you say. I would like Leica to lead rather than follow. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajayk Posted August 25, 2018 Share #100 Posted August 25, 2018 I wouldn't presume to list the need of high-level videographers, nor those of professional product photographers. My point is that video and still will converge in the near future, especially when video output can be raw (8K?) as you say. I would like Leica to lead rather than follow. 100% agree with you! I want Leica to be the leader that it once was and not a laggard!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.