Nikon Z6, Z7 and Leica SL ..... (merged)

[mmradman]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

That is a contradiction in terms;  4K = 3840 × 2160 pixels (4K UHD)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

 

See post #178

 

Z7/6 offer 4K video without sensor crop horizontally.  As video has 16:9 ratio i think there must be some vertical cropping.

 

16:9 = 1.778

3:2 = 1.5 

 

Looking at the wiki page there are several "4K" formats, not sure how this relates to cameras we discuss. 

Both Z6 & Z7 can do 4K UHD or 3840 by 2160 utilising full sensor. 

 

I think she/he means 4K recording with full frame sensor coverage rather than Super 35 (crop) coverage as it is now. 

It is he.  No self respecting She would spend so much time on the camera forum.

Edited August 31, 2018 by mmradman

[MediaFotografie]

Nikon now published MTF curves for the new Z lenses: https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/

 

here's a MTF comparison Z 50/1,8 and Summilux-SL 50/1,4 (as usual 10/30 lines/mm for Nikon and 5/10/20/40 for Leica)

 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited August 31, 2018 by mediafotografie

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[mmradman]

The plot thickens, Canon is on the move...

 

https://photorumors.com/2018/08/31/breaking-canon-eos-r-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-confirs-lens-roadmap-leaked-online/

[mmradman]

Nikon now published MTF curves for the new Z lenses: https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/

 

here's a MTF comparison Z 50/1,8 and Summilux-SL 50/1,4 (as usual 10/30 lines/mm for Nikon and 5/10/20/40 for Leica)

Interesting to see improvement over earlier F mount lenses.  The F mount lenses 35 f1.8 and 50 f1.8 used as a comparison base were already well regarded but always needed a bit of stopping down to reach optimum - considering low price acceptable trait.

 

 

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/31/the-new-nikkor-z-mirrorless-lenses-from-nikon.aspx/

[Jon Warwick]

Is the Nikon MTF taken wide open at f1.8? ....any pointers on how to read this would be appreciated.

 

I just handled the Nikon Z7 and 35mm 1.8 prime for an hour.

 

It feels very light and very compact ... the body size was similar to my M240 .....albeit I noted the Z 35mm lens is only a bit shorter than the SL primes, so it’s more the dimensions of the Z body that gave me the overall small size impression.

 

After years with Leica, the “feel” of the Nikon versus a Leica, and the sheer number of buttons, was a bit of a shock though!

 

I’m still interested in the Z7, and I’m on a waiting list, but in the back of my mind I REALLY hope that Leica can muster up an SL2 that is a bit smaller than the SL AND with a 45mp sensor.

 

There’s something to be said about having one ecosystem to switch between M and SL primes too that I find attractive. If the SL2 was more similar in size to the smaller Z7, it would be really good for adapted M lenses.....

[mmradman]

Is the Nikon MTF taken wide open at f1.8? ....any pointers on how to read this would be appreciated.

 

I just handled the Nikon Z7 and 35mm 1.8 prime for an hour.

 

It feels very light and very compact ... the body size was similar to my M240 .....albeit I noted the Z 35mm lens is only a bit shorter than the SL primes, so it’s more the dimensions of the Z body that gave me the overall small size impression.

 

After years with Leica, the “feel” of the Nikon versus a Leica, and the sheer number of buttons, was a bit of a shock though!

 

I’m still interested in the Z7, and I’m on a waiting list, but in the back of my mind I REALLY hope that Leica can muster up an SL2 that is a bit smaller than the SL AND with a 45mp sensor.

 

There’s something to be said about having one ecosystem to switch between M and SL primes too that I find attractive. If the SL2 was more similar in size to the smaller Z7, it would be really good for adapted M lenses.....

I think charts are for lens at maximum aperture.

 

+1 to SL2 with specs matching Z7. 

[darylgo]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

It's very difficult to compare Nikon and Leica charts. Leica uses 10,20,40 lp and Nikon 10,30. I'm not sure why Nikon and Canon won't publish 40. Every lens looks pretty good at 30 on the chart but not optically. Lens rental levels the playing field with their mtf.

[jrp]

For a real Nikon MTF chart, check out this one for their new 500mm f5.6.  (Seems to be better than theoretically possible under visible light.)

[BernardC]

How about full frame 4K.

 

"Full frame 4K" would be DCI 4K (4096x2160), which the SL supports and the Z does not, as far as I know.

I realize that you were referring to UHD over the full sensor width. You are correct that the SL only offer 2K/HD over the full sensor. 4K and UHD are captured using a sensor area that is roughly equivalent to 4-perf 35 (what most motion pictures have used since the dawn of the sound era).

 

It is a feature, but not a feature that is critical to video/film production. The only way to fully exploit it, in shots with movement, is to have a professional focus puller and a full crew. Will larger budget shows use the Nikon Z? I doubt it. There are much better video-friendly options on the market already.

 

I'm not saying you can't use it for your own artistic endeavors, just that it has limited usefulness in professional video production. Almost every movie released today was shot either on film, or on a "Super 35" (4-perf) video camera. The few exceptions have very high budgets. There's a reason for that.

[LD_50]

Interesting to see improvement over earlier F mount lenses. The F mount lenses 35 f1.8 and 50 f1.8 used as a comparison base were already well regarded but always needed a bit of stopping down to reach optimum - considering low price acceptable trait.

 

 

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/31/the-new-nikkor-z-mirrorless-lenses-from-nikon.aspx/

Comparing the Z S-line 50 f/1.8 with the F G version is not a good comparison at all.

 

The ZS lens is more than double the price and weight and larger in every dimension. It is also supposed to be their top of the line series while the FG version is just meant to be a cheap standard lens.

[mmradman]

Comparing the Z S-line 50 f/1.8 with the F G version is not a good comparison at all.

 

The ZS lens is more than double the price and weight and larger in every dimension. It is also supposed to be their top of the line series while the FG version is just meant to be a cheap standard lens.

Indeed we are comparing apples and pears here, it is to illustrate that Nikon has raised the game when it comes to quality of own optics.

At max aperture transmission graphs are virtually flat close to the edge of the frame.

 

Price; twice as much as cheapest Nikon prime, in UK at VEX AFS 50mm f1.8 is £219 and AFD 50m f1.8 £129, which is similar price to a typical Leica filter.  

So, new Nikon S 50mm f1.8 lens is advertised to retail at £599, how does that compare to any Summicron?

[Jeff S]

errr..... you mean making small, fast AF lenses of excellent optical quality.

 

The laws of optics and physics cannot be overcome ..... and the moving AF elements impose significant constraints. If you look at comparable AF mirrorless lenses they all come in at roughly the same size.

Puts has a different take on the reasons companies, including Leica, have opted for larger designs with more elements....

http://photo.imx.nl//blog/files/45d7e30e7b4886410b6275107d08f9b1-112.html

 

And he expands here on why his commentary is no longer well received within Leica...

 

http://photo.imx.nl//blog/files/02f7b30c3626f74cc1bafa6fc1b36922-111.html

 

Jeff

Edited August 31, 2018 by Jeff S

[Chaemono]

The 35 Summicron-SL is tiny. To be out in a couple of weeks. No point in comparing it on the SL vs. the Nikon Z7+35/1.8. The more interesting comparison would be SL2+50 Summilux-SL vs Z7+50/1.8. I’ll eventyally shoot them side by side. If it takes too long for the SL2 to come out I’ll use the SL. Anyone can write any cr@p they want these days.

[LD_50]

Indeed we are comparing apples and pears here, it is to illustrate that Nikon has raised the game when it comes to quality of own optics.

At max aperture transmission graphs are virtually flat close to the edge of the frame.

 

Price; twice as much as cheapest Nikon prime, in UK at VEX AFS 50mm f1.8 is £219 and AFD 50m f1.8 £129, which is similar price to a typical Leica filter.

So, new Nikon S 50mm f1.8 lens is advertised to retail at £599, how does that compare to any Summicron?

Comparing the ZS and FG 50s does not show Nikon has raised the game on its own optics. The FG 50 was never an example of their best optics. They have some great lenses and that isn’t one of them.

 

I’m not comparing the price of Nikon lenses to Leica lenses. It’s clear how they compare in price. I don’t think price has any sort of linear relationship to quality. Materials, manufacturing processes, scale of production, brand, etc influence price more than MTF.

 

That said, Nikon has some lenses that are very expensive for the same reasons Leica has. The new ZS 58 f/0.95 is an example of what will be a very expensive lens. This will be due to glass required, the limited availability, the marketing aspect of a “halo” lens, the brand history for this lens, etc.

[pgk]

All manufacturers face the same problem. The cameras that they produce are no longer relevant for most uses - they are total overkill. Except that despite their technical specification it is actually the interface which is most in need of being refined. All manufacturers could do with taking a long look at the M system. Despite its apparent technological shortcomings it is a very refined system which offers a very mature platform for users who prefer its simplicity. The interface between photographer and subject is what really helps take photographs. I take better images with my M cameras because nothing gets in the way. The Sony A7 is a classic example of how technology interferes with the image taking process. Many of its apparent technological advantages are negated because setting the 'system' up is time consuming and fiddly. In all honesty I doubt whether the real world differences between the results from SL, Z7, A7III and potential Canon will be of any absoloute significance to any but the technically obsessed. What will make the difference is the way that the camera can be utilised. It will be interesting to see if any manufacturer is prepared to take a long hard look at whether genuine simplicity can be incorporated into such sophisticated optical/electronic units.

[mmradman]

Comparing the ZS and FG 50s does not show Nikon has raised the game on its own optics. The FG 50 was never an example of their best optics. They have some great lenses and that isn’t one of them.

 

I’m not comparing the price of Nikon lenses to Leica lenses. It’s clear how they compare in price. I don’t think price has any sort of linear relationship to quality. Materials, manufacturing processes, scale of production, brand, etc influence price more than MTF.

 

That said, Nikon has some lenses that are very expensive for the same reasons Leica has. The new ZS 58 f/0.95 is an example of what will be a very expensive lens. This will be due to glass required, the limited availability, the marketing aspect of a “halo” lens, the brand history for this lens, etc.

There was a long thread on M forum recently about resultant effect of lens and sensor quality combined.  As ever opinion remains divided but lets just say that overall image quality is dependant on the quality of lens and quality of sensor combined [1/R = 1/RL + 1/RS].

 

Last time i tried Nikon D850 with dirt cheap Nikkor 50mm f1.8 at max aperture i was blown away with the sharpness and quality of the detail at maximum magnification - aka pixel peep. If New S lens is even better optically then F mount predecessor than we have interesting times ahead.

 

What about Leica SL2?  It is not due until next year earliest, S008 is overdue assuming Leica is still in medium format business.   Maybe at Photokina  collector special edition is unveiled, sporting new-old 24Mp sensor and re-marketed quieter shutter, and a top plate script instead of the red dot.

[LD_50]

I shot a D4s before buying an MP240. The D4s is covered in buttons but rarely requires use of a menu.

 

Despite all that complexity, it was as easy to pickup and shoot as the M:

 

Set to Aperture priority mode, same as the M. Change aperture with the rear dial or on lens. Change focus with focus ring on lens or use AF if desired. M is easier to verify manual focus accuracy. D4s is able to AF.

 

Set to Manual mode, same as the M. Change aperture with rear dial or on lens and shutter speed with front dial. It’s as simple as the M. Change focus with focus ring on lens or use AF if desired. M is easier to verify manual focus accuracy. D4s is able to AF.

 

You don’t have to use all the features but they are there to accomplish much more than an M system.

 

I like how the SL and S cameras are setup. You have minimalist UI but have a lot of features available.

 

These are the systems to learn from, not the M. Every manufacturer had M style controls and ergonomics until that didn’t work for photographers. The interfaces cluttered over time as more features were added (and wanted by most photographers). The innovative interface of the SL is its best attribute for me.

[MediaFotografie]

The 35 Summicron-SL is tiny. 

 

no, it's exactly the same size than Summicron-SL 90 and 75 and will be about 700 gr - I don't think this is tiny for 35mm/2,0

 

Here some pics from Leica's website showing the upcoming lens

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Chaemono]

..., S008 is overdue assuming Leica is still in medium format business.

Yes, long overdue. Having production issues. I suspect because of IBIS. Announcement still scheduled for this year’s Photokina. Wait and see.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[LD_50]

There was a long thread on M forum recently about resultant effect of lens and sensor quality combined. As ever opinion remains divided but lets just say that overall image quality is dependant on the quality of lens and quality of sensor combined [1/R = 1/RL + 1/RS].

 

Last time i tried Nikon D850 with dirt cheap Nikkor 50mm f1.8 at max aperture i was blown away with the sharpness and quality of the detail at maximum magnification - aka pixel peep. If New S lens is even better optically then F mount predecessor than we have interesting times ahead.

 

What about Leica SL2? It is not due until next year earliest, S008 is overdue assuming Leica is still in medium format business. Maybe at Photokina collector special edition is unveiled, sporting new-old 24Mp sensor and re-marketed quieter shutter, and a top plate script instead of the red dot.

The D850 has a great sensor. The 50 f/1.8 is not a great lens. The 50 f/1.8 FG is simply not intended to be and is not one of Nikon’s best lenses. Comparing to their better lenses shows this. Adding the sensor to the equation to compare to the SL is irrelevant to this point.

 

Put an Otus on the D850 and you’ll see much better results.

 

The Z7 will show the same. The 50FG will look worse than the 50ZS. The Otus will likely outperform both.