If an M camera with an EVF was released, would it replace your SL?

[Markey]

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8 hours ago, PeterGA said:

I have paired down my Leica gear to an M10M for B&W and kept my SL2 for autofocus happy snaps. 60MP and no IBIS is an experiment I ran with for 2 years and couldn't really get any joy from - so I ditched the M11.  An EVF M sans IBIS fixes nothing - and I wont go into the other issues plaguing the M11. The real problem I have with Leica's M direction is its pricing - love the M lenses - laugh at the IQ trade down compared to Hasselblad and even Fuji that the M11 chip delivers.

If I want to show off discretionary expenditure idiocy - I'd rather do it by adding to my Ducati collection - not semi functional jewelry that looks no different to the functional jewelry in cameras made by teh same camera company - 15 years ago.

I'm still angry about Leica dumping teh CL body instead of adding a full frame chip and IBIS - that is teh camera that would interest me - the SL3 ...yeah nahhhh.

Totally agree .

In my case I`ve paired down to a 246 and my CL  plus one M film body ( M4BP).

When I want a full frame colour body for my M lenses I use my SL2s. Although that sits on the shelf 90% of the time.

Dumping the CL was one of Leica`s daft decisions although I guess they thought it may eat into their M line to much.

Who knows.

[Markey]

6 hours ago, Planetwide said:

2019 Pikes Peak here. I will not look at the SL3 until I can examine the AF in person. My gut is telling me that it will be a slow camera. I am looking at the Hasselblad and the Fuji...

If you read the Leica SL page on FB there appears to be a fair amount of dissatisfaction with the AF on the SL3.

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[f8low]

22 hours ago, jaapv said:

Actually the killed off the only Barnack like camera they had in the form of the CL

 

11 hours ago, PeterGA said:

I'm still angry about Leica dumping teh CL body instead of adding a full frame chip and IBIS 

 

2 hours ago, Markey said:

Dumping the CL was one of Leica`s daft decisions although I guess they thought it may eat into their M line to much.

It's true, they killed the CL but I don't think that means they don't like the idea of a Barnack-like FF EVF Camera w/ interchangeable lenses. Maybe it just wasn't yet the time to make it happen. Maybe they did not continue the CL line because they think it should go full frame but at the time they couldn't squeeze it into their development pipeline. It's a small company and they like to do it right.

[jaapv]

I think it is more of a commercial decision to reduce the legacy aspect of their product line. 

[Markey]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

I think it is more of a commercial decision to reduce the legacy aspect of their product line. 

That`s interesting .

I guess nostalgia has its commercial limits.

 

 

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, Markey said:

I guess nostalgia has its commercial limits.

The original Leica T came-out 10 years ago, and the CL in 2017. That's not long enough for nostalgia to set-in.

Let's not forget that they stopped making APS-C bodies because people weren't buying them!

 

[SrMi]

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1 hour ago, BernardC said:

The original Leica T came-out 10 years ago, and the CL in 2017. That's not long enough for nostalgia to set-in.

Let's not forget that they stopped making APS-C bodies because people weren't buying them!

If Leica stopped updating their FF cameras in 2017, people would also stop buying Leica FF cameras even though the cameras from 2017 are still excellent tools.

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

If Leica stopped updating their FF cameras in 2017, people would also stop buying Leica FF cameras even though the cameras from 2017 are still excellent tools.

True, but it happened the other way. Customers didn't buy the CL in large numbers, whereas the SL line was (and is) doing well, so they decided to spend their money on the SL line. Looking at the timeline, the CL/TL replacement was the SL2-S.

[SrMi]

18 minutes ago, BernardC said:

True, but it happened the other way. Customers didn't buy the CL in large numbers, whereas the SL line was (and is) doing well, so they decided to spend their money on the SL line. Looking at the timeline, the CL/TL replacement was the SL2-S.

Because of the difference in size and weight SL2-S is not a CL replacement in my eyes.

[BernardC]

2 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Because of the difference in size and weight SL2-S is not a CL replacement in my eyes.

I shouldn't have said "replacement." It's the camera we got instead of the CL2. It was released around the time that a CL replacement was expected, which means that it took the CL2's place in the dev queue.

The Q2 is the camera that really killed the APS-C line. That camera was a blockbuster success, which made the CL line redundant.

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, BernardC said:

The original Leica T came-out 10 years ago, and the CL in 2017. That's not long enough for nostalgia to set-in.

Let's not forget that they stopped making APS-C bodies because people weren't buying them!

 

The form of the CL was certainly Barnack-nostalgia.

[BernardC]

17 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The form of the CL was certainly Barnack-nostalgia.

The X1 and X2 were the most Barnack-like. I keep my III in a case that was originally sold for those models. It's a tight fit, but it works.

[jaapv]

Those as well, you are right.

[Markey]

My concern is , whether or not the CL has been replaced by the SL or the Q , it leaves a group of ASPC lenses without a home.

I`m surprised that their used price is holding up as well as it is.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

21 hours ago, Planetwide said:

2019 Pikes Peak here. I will not look at the SL3 until I can examine the AF in person. My gut is telling me that it will be a slow camera. I am looking at the Hasselblad and the Fuji...

Well, those are both slower than the SL3 and have a lot less system flexibility. I have the X2D and GFX100II (and S). The GFX is a big system. A significant jump from the SL3.

However I DO look at my X1DII and heavier X2D as often interchangeable with the M11. The 38, 55 and 90V also have pretty slick manual focus implemented. I love the smaller size of the X1D but love the IBIS and flippy screen of the X2D more. If the M11 had a built in EVF variant I'd probably use it more than the 'blads. For now, it's the other way around.

And for those that said dropping the CL was daft......

Yes. Yes. Yes.

The irony that Leica couldn't make the TL/CL work and then HB took a TL2 operating system and design language, added a bigger sensor and an EVF and it saved the company, is noticed by me. It's an absolute tragedy that those stunning little lenses (the best APSC lenses made) don't have a small IBIS body to strap them too.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

15 hours ago, Markey said:

If you read the Leica SL page on FB there appears to be a fair amount of dissatisfaction with the AF on the SL3.

Yep, they love to whinge there. And here. Simply put it's a mix of untapped potential and unrealistic expectations. Half these muppets though they were going to get a Leica version of the A7R5. Was never going to happen. Having said that the firmware is definitely still *beta* in feel. There are improvements to be made. And when they are that lot will just whine endlessly about something else.

If you don't like it you shouldn't have bought it or done some research before you did.

Gordon

[2M6TTLs]

On 4/26/2024 at 7:11 AM, Dr. G said:

I've been hearing some chatter recently, with even my local Leica store saying that there was "nothing official, but Leica's reason for developing some of the new close focus M lenses 'might' be because an M body with an EVF is coming soon."  

If an M body with an EVF was to be released, I wonder how many people would consider moving from the SL system to it.  I know there are more than a few people here that use fast manual focus lenses on their SL because the EVF is better for obtaining critical focus.

As a second question, if an L mount interchangeable lens Q body was released with IBIS and AF, would you switch?

Another question: If you were Leica and knowing that many people would consider moving to the Leica -'it' EVF camera instead of buying more SL system lenses, would you still make it?

[2M6TTLs]

14 hours ago, f8low said:

 

 

It's true, they killed the CL but I don't think that means they don't like the idea of a Barnack-like FF EVF Camera w/ interchangeable lenses. Maybe it just wasn't yet the time to make it happen. Maybe they did not continue the CL line because they think it should go full frame but at the time they couldn't squeeze it into their development pipeline. It's a small company and they like to do it right.

They are probably working on a full frame CL type camera right now, we just don't know about it. They will want to make it fully effective with SL system lenses. but Ideally, it would also come with a new set of lenses about the same size as Sigma's contemporary line. In this case, they need quite a bit of time for development to get it right. I wouldn't mind seeing an affordable fixed lens but  more compact version of the Q too. A 35mm Summarit 2.4 lens with enough MP for cropping would also work nicely and would be popular with SL system owners who want something lighter to carry along.

[Dr. G]

6 minutes ago, 2M6TTLs said:

Another question: If you were Leica and knowing that many people would consider moving to the Leica -'it' EVF camera instead of buying more SL system lenses, would you still make it?

Counter question...  If you were Leica and could make a smaller body that still took L lenses but was full frame in a smaller format to appeal to those who don't want a SL style body, would you do it?  I still contend that a Q-style, L mount body could have both a shared and a different market.   

Sony made the a7c and it seems to be doing fairly well.

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[Le Chef]

13 hours ago, BernardC said:

Let's not forget that they stopped making APS-C bodies because people weren't buying them!

Let’s not forget Leica stopped marketing APSC because they didn’t know what they were doing in the first place. It’s cause and effect caused by incompetence.