Would you buy an EVF only M camera? [MERGED]

[lct]

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M lenses would have to remain exactly as they are of course but Sony and Techart can do it with current M lenses already so why not Leica? An EVF-M with IBIS and AF adapter could do that.

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[pegelli]

23 minutes ago, pop said:

Yes, quite. The M0 and M1 made by Leica were not M cameras. They were just cameras with model names starting with M.

That's a good point I hadn't thought of. Fortunately these cameras didn't have an EVF either

By the way, I don't think an M0 ever existed, the M1 had a viewfinder (with 35 and 50 mm lines), but no rangefinder. The MD, MDa and MD-2 were made without a viewfinder and for use with another framing/focussing device, for instance a visoflex housing or microscope adapter.

Edited December 7, 2022 by pegelli

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[JulyLL]

13 minutes ago, Musky said:

They have enough problems keeping with demand as it is. Unless you want them to become another general purpose mass produced cameras in China manufacturer. 
 

there are currently so many camera that do what you want. Just get one of those. 

You are missing the point, the M line is a Luxury tool Just like the Mercedes G Wagon. FYI Mercedes is working on a G EV version for next year.

Why? Because there are folks who love the built quality and design aesthetics of the vehicle. 

Leica can still produce a small amount, but the goal is to offer more options. 

 

As for, "there are currently so many cameras that do what you want already. Just get one of those."

My answer is I already own the latest Sony models and was considering a Fuji Xpro3 but was not in love with it to pull the trigger. 

I will most likely pick up an M10p or M10R but my heart would love an EVF/Autofocus M 

[JulyLL]

2 minutes ago, Musky said:

Just this line alone makes me think it isn’t me who is missing the point of a Leica M. It’s the sort of thing I hear from Sony people hating on Leica on the internet saying it’s a camera for rich lawyers too look cool. 

The Leica M is about the experience and process of taking a photograph. If you put an EVF and AF on it that unique process of taking a photo with a mechanical and manual rangefinder is gone. 

The digital Leica M’s reaches the end of what I would consider keeping that process very similar to analogue film up to the M10R. The M11, if they keep going, could mark the beginning of the end. 

Wrong again. It’s about limitations. They’ve actually said that when talking about the Leica M. 

 

Get the Fuji then. You didn’t get the Fuji Because well, we see why in the way you look at the Leica M. It’s your Mercedes G-Wagon. You just need people to see you driving in it. 

First - I love Leica as a brand and admire their history 

Second - I don't buy products for people to notice me, I think you might be a little harsh in judging people. My favorite watch is - A lange and sohne most people dont even know what brand that is. 

Third - Anyone that doesn't think Leica is a luxury camera brand is completely delusional. 

Fourth - With your mindset, Lecia would have never released a digital M or Q model 

Embrace change as life is not designed to stop moving. 

[darylgo]

@JulyLL

This type of thinking could be exactly what Leica needs, however with the M line they are laggards, behind the rest of the industry by as much as twenty years, it almost drove them to bankruptcy.   Currently, Leica is producing a great amount of equipment, and from what I hear is doing very well financially, there's no great need to innovate with the M, quite the contrary they are going back to the roots and making it more retro with removal of video, screens, etc.  The answer to your proposal is often heard that the SL does what your asking but Leica has made no effort to size this camera line anything close to the M, making it a less than desirable camera for those of us that want M size.   

[pop]

14 minutes ago, Musky said:

Such as? You mean young people? All those young people that can spend $20,000 on 1 camera and 1 lens you mean? 😀

I take it that you only own one pair of shoes, the only Shoe That Provides That Unique Walking Feeling?

[lct]

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18 minutes ago, Musky said:

There goes shooting with a rangefinder camera 😀 … get your Fuji. They already have all this stuff. 

I have all this already thank you. 

[Kwesi]

8 minutes ago, darylgo said:

@JulyLL

This type of thinking could be exactly what Leica needs, however with the M line they are laggards, behind the rest of the industry by as much as twenty years, it almost drove them to bankruptcy.   Currently, Leica is producing a great amount of equipment, and from what I hear is doing very well financially, there's no great need to innovate with the M, quite the contrary they are going back to the roots and making it more retro with removal of video, screens, etc.  The answer to your proposal is often heard that the SL does what your asking but Leica has made no effort to size this camera line anything close to the M, making it a less than desirable camera for those of us that want M size.   

If we look at this from Leica's point of view. - Fulfilling the OP's wish list robs the M of its competitive advantage in a crowded market - basically its uniqueness.

The more you try to make it like the others the the harder it will be to justify its price. Unless you turn it into a truly Veblen good where its main point of appeal is the prohibitive price.

Look at how the SL line is being discounted to stay competitive.

[JulyLL]

3 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

If we look at this from Leica's point of view. - Fulfilling the OP's wish list robs the M of its competitive advantage in a crowded market - basically its uniqueness.

The more you try to make it like the others the the harder it will be to justify its price. Unless you turn it into a truly Veblen good where its main point of appeal is the prohibitive price.

Look at how the SL line is being discounted to stay competitive.

Just an idea redesign the SL and make it into an SLM I would buy the SL if it looked like an M model. 

I think a good portion of people truly love the design and the built quality of the M over the SL

[pegelli]

37 minutes ago, JulyLL said:

Just an idea redesign the SL and make it into an SLM I would buy the SL if it looked like an M model.

Which mount would you like on that camera, L or M, and why?

[pegelli]

1 hour ago, lct said:

An EVF-M with IBIS and AF adapter could do that.

Too bad for people who use FLE lenses, and these AF adapters are clunky at best (at least that's the impression I get when reading several reviews).

[dpitt]

So, maybe an M11-E without a viewfinder and at a significantly cheaper pricepoint would be a good idea: 

• zone focus and OVF
• live view for focus and framing
• EVF for longer focal length

 

[jdlaing]

We do not.

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, Musky said:

Such as? You mean young people? All those young people that can spend $20,000 on 1 camera and 1 lens you mean? 😀

Many young people have more money than I have... I mean the ones that drive BMW 530ies and Audi A 6 50 series... Leica runs on 1 % of the market.

[dpitt]

The one reason why I moved from Nikon DSLR to Leica M was to get better quality in a smaller package. Once you try to build in autofocus in a leica M lens, it will grow considerably. Building a AF zoom with IS is even bigger. My Leica 90mm Elmar - Macro is smaller than a 50mm prime on those mirrorless bodies.

Shame… The other brands with mirrorless FF bodies missed the point for me. Their shorter flange distance should make it possible to design quality  lenses (zoom and prime) even smaller than M lenses. They don’t even have to bother with the RF mechanism in the lenses… I was amazed at how bulky my friends Nikon Z6 with his zoom is.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, JulyLL said:

Just an idea redesign the SL and make it into an SLM I would buy the SL if it looked like an M model. 

 

I  have tools that work for me - not to show off. Who cares how it looks?

[JulyLL]

18 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I  have tools that work for me - not to show off. Who cares how it looks?

I care how things look. 

Also, Leica cares about how things look as well. 

[jaapv]

Well, it is nice if they look nice. But my primary reason for buying a tool is the way  it works.

[JulyLL]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

Well, it is nice if they look nice. But my primary reason for buying a tool is the way  it works.

And I respect that as well. 

Nothing wrong with wanting a great tool that works and looks good. 

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[Knipsknecht]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb JulyLL:

I care how things look. 

Also, Leica cares about how things look as well. 

Yes, sure - but then you will have to live with its technological shortcomings. The same way as your rather pricey A. Lange & Söhne watch pleases your eyes while every 100 Euro Seiko or 50 Euro Casio digital watch will always be much more accurate and precise. As the world looks right now you cannot have both - the latest tech and the super-luxurious looks -, at least as long as Apple didn’t acquire Leica😄.