Leica M11 Review: Bridge to the Future

[Herr Barnack]

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1 hour ago, geotrupede said:

despite initial shock and bugs and the EVF saga, I am very happy with M11. It is a very good upgrade and for me a solid machine. 1.6.1 seems to fix all problems which had earlier on with charging, with EVF and random exposures. The additional fast fps, live view, immortal battery and light weight are really great to have for me. Would never consider going backwards.

 

 

That's good to hear. 

After a lot of deliberating, I have decided to wait for the arrival of the M11-P to upgrade from my M-P 240.  For a while I had thought in terms of going with the M10-R rather than the M11.  1.6.1 seems to have helped the M11 more than the initial firmware did, which is welcome news.

[Stephen.s1]

My guess is that M12 will be the world  beater.  Put my order in now.   (hope I live long enough to enjoy one).

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[benqui]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Stephen.s1:

My guess is that M12 will be the world  beater.  Put my order in now.   (hope I live long enough to enjoy one).

Wish you all the best!😉

[Herr Barnack]

34 minutes ago, Stephen.s1 said:

My guess is that M12 will be the world  beater.  Put my order in now.   (hope I live long enough to enjoy one).

Just wait - somebody will soon be selling an M12 life insurance policy. 

If you die while waiting in the que, your designated beneficiary will receive your M12 with the purchase price covered by the policy.

Operators are probably already standing by. 🙄

Edited March 12, 2023 by Herr Barnack

[jakontil]

35 minutes ago, Stephen.s1 said:

My guess is that M12 will be the world  beater.  Put my order in now.   (hope I live long enough to enjoy one).

bookmark this post, it would be wonderful by the time you get your M12 shipped to your house 

[lct]

Problem is the M12 will freeze with super duper fast memory cards so TRLM (The Real Leica Man) will wait for the M12-P, but the latter won't have a global shutter yet so TRLM will wait for the M13, but 13 is bad luck number so TRLM will wait for the M14 if he's not pushing up daisies by then. Hard world for TRLM  Just kidding folks, nothing personal of course 😇

[fcracer]

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On 3/9/2023 at 4:24 PM, Kiwimac said:

I presume the IQ difference you mention between M10 and M11 is lessened when you’re talking M10-R to M11?

Hi Kiwimac, I'm sorry but I don't have hands-on experience with the M10-R so I don't want to assume anything. However, basic physics would say that the difference would be much smaller, given the M10-R has 41MP vs. 61MP. From a pixel perspective, the M11 will provide 21% more linear pixels in width and height [9528/7864 = 21%] & [6328/5200 = 21%].

On 3/12/2023 at 3:36 AM, Herr Barnack said:

Regarding the above, my ongoing question still remains unanswered:  Why are some M11s afflicted with lockups and/or overexposure issues while other M11s are not?? 

Is it something the user is doing that causes these issues?  Or is it defective hardware in the afflicted cameras?  Or is it something else? 

Will we ever have a definitive answer?

 

Hi Barnack, it's a mystery that's for sure and I don't think any of us will ever know; Leica has no incentive or need to tell us. For what it's worth, I have two M11 in the household and neither had the constant freezing issues or the lens detection problems that others had. Reading all these posts made me anxious that at least one camera would exhibit these issues, but both remained reliable and trouble-free. 

Indeed, with the exception of the buggy initial firmware, the cameras have been reliable and were used on many trips as our only cameras. There must be a subsystem that has a defect in some cameras which has spillover effects; cameras are so complicated these days so it's anyone's guess. Thankfully, it appears they were able to fix the issues without changing hardware, so that must be a huge relief for clients and for Leica's accountants!

Let's just hope that the future M12 doesn't have all these teething issues! 

[IkarusJohn]

I don't wish to appear grumpy, and I am not a "real Leica man"; just a hobby photographer.

I have a TL2, for when I want a compact camera, and I have an SL for when I want an all singing, all dancing, universal mount for my Leica lenses (10 M lenses, 2 TL, 1 SL zoom & an R tele).  So, if I want AF, video and all the wonderful settings and options a digital camera brings, I use that.

My M cameras are not about doing lots of things, but about taking away everything that is not strictly necessary - so, for me, the M11 is not a step into the future, but a cul de sac.  For me.  I simply don't see the point.

Coming from film, I want the best lenses in the simplest body, with aperture on the lens, manual focus on the lens, shutter dial top right, and somewhere to set ISO.  I don't really think I want anything else physical on the camera.  My M10-D doesn't even have an LCD (many argue that's a step too far, but I rather like it).  My M-A doesn't even have a meter.

So, the M11 is history, and we probably have variants coming - M11-P (the camera the M11 should probably have been); M11-M (I have the original Monochrom, and when it dies I will certainly get another monochrome camera); others?  Who knows.  The Experts say there won't be an M11-D, though I don't know if they know any more than me.

What would be my "future" M camera?  Well, it would need to include only developments required to make the fundamental M digital (what Leica tried to make with the M9 and where the M10 has come closest) - for the M12, that would mean an M10 with the following improvements:

• WiFi which works properly
• an EVF which really is an improvement, and is sympathetic to the look of the M camera
• USB-C charging
• click out battery and get rid of the baseplate
• internal memory & SD card slot
• larger buffer and faster processor
• better dynamic range

Do I need more MP?  No, 24 MP is plenty.  Do I mind more?  Not really, but I don't see the point - I'm a reluctant cropper, preferring to switch lenses the old fashioned way.  Leica cameras are about their lenses, after all.  If dynamic range improves, less noise, better colour etc, I'm very happy.

Do I need permanent live view (ie, sensor always live)?  No.  A global shutter for an M camera is years away, and I'm not sure what I gain.  Shutter open-close has been fine for me for the past 50 years, and I'm happy with reflective metering off the closed shutter.  I like the sound of a shutter opening and closing, and I'm used to the centre-weighted metering off the shutter.  But then, I don't really care.  If there's a dog barking quietly, telling me with certainty when the shutter fires, I'm happy.  The busy, shutter open, closed, open to expose, closed, then open again of the M11 I don't like.  It's annoying, compared to the pleasing sound of the M10 shutter.  I see no gain in this - if I want the complex metering options, I just mount the EVF.

Do I need cropping & variable resolutions.  No, to me this is a gimmick I have zero interest in.  Yes, I could just turn all that off in settings and forget about it.

Now, imagine an M10, which dealt with the list above.  That would be a future of the M system.  For me.

[Corius]

10 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

..... for the M12, that would mean an M10 with the following improvements:

• WiFi which works properly
• an EVF which really is an improvement, and is sympathetic to the look of the M camera
• USB-C charging
• click out battery and get rid of the baseplate
• internal memory & SD card slot
• larger buffer and faster processor
• better dynamic range

....

So, in other words, you want an M11 with a built-in EVF.

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, Corius said:

So, in other words, you want an M11 with a built-in EVF.

No.

[Herr Barnack]

Quote

...For anyone that has purchased a Leica M prior to the M11, you would have experienced one of the coolest unboxing experiences out there. The outer shell systematically unravels itself to expose a beautifully built box with a magnetic flap hiding the camera, and well defined cardboard drawers encasing user manuals and cables. It’s an unforgettable experience and makes the first interaction with the camera really special.

Unfortunately, likely due to environmental reasons, Leica has moved away from this packaging and now has a very basic box with foam inserts. The camera sits in the foam insert as do the cables. The user manual now sits on top of the foam under the very normal and uninspiring outer box. When I first opened the M11, I asked the shop for the “real box” instead of the shipping box, to which I was saddened to hear, “this is the real box”...

Leica made a big mistake here.

People do not just throw the beautiful Leica M boxes in the nearest dumpster; it is part of the package.

I have no objection to the $9000 USD price tag of the M11 but it most definitely needs to come in a proper box, like my M-P 240 Safari came in.  Not a box like I would get with a $35 toaster I bought at Wal Mart (if I shopped at Wal Mart, that is).

Please, oh please Pooh-Bahs at Wetzlar:  Give us back our beautiful, wonderful, magical Leica M camera presentation boxes, beginning with the M11-P.  Just tack on an extra $50 to the price of the camera and call it a done deal.