Light Lens Lab Elcan 50mm f2 Review

[shirubadanieru]

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I just got the LLL Elcan 50mm f2 and went out with it today, so thought of sharing my thoughts here given there isn’t a lot of info about this lens online. This is the second remake done by Light Lens Lab, after the 35mm 8 elements and it is slowly rolling out to more people outside of China / Hong Kong. Here are my quick thoughts, not technical at all; this review is simply a summary of my thoughts (a Leica user who has used pretty much all 35mm and 50mm available for the L-mount and M-mount). 

Build Quality: Simply amazing. On par with any Leica lens I’ve tried. I also own the LLL 8-elements and both lenses are amazingly well built. The lens is pretty much the same size as the 8 elements, so it’s very small for a 50mm lens, around half the size of a regular 50mm summicron. That being said, the lens is all brass so it weights around 230g (similar to the 50 cron weight wise). I got the chrome version, but it’s also available in black paint and other finishes such as titanium, olive, etc. 

Ease of use: The lens design remains true to the original Elcan, which means that the focus knob is the largest on any Leica lens I’ve tried (so that it can be easily focused when wearing gloves), and there is a small knob to move the aperture, like the summicron 35mm 6 elements. The only downside with the Elcan (original and remake) is that for some unknown reason the aperture turns in the opposite way as all other Leica lens, so it does take some time to get used to it. Focus throw is very similar to any old Leica lens, which is a bit longer than modern Leica lens (I actually prefer a longer focus throw). 

Optics: I never used the original Elcan so it’s hard to compare, but the shop I got it from had the original and told me that after testing them side by side they were 98% identical. That being said, I’ve shot the lens wide open & at around f4~f5.6 today, so I will share some shots with you today so that you can make your own conclusions. My initial impression is that it has a very nice, old style bokeh, and it is very sharp in the center even wide open (similar to the rigid Summicron 50mm, Summicron 50mm v3 or similar lens from that period). To my surprise, the Elcan also has a nice 3D pop, which I feel it is more pronounced than the Rigid / V3. I did not notice any chromatic aberration in all of my shots (about 100 shots) but I also did not pixel peep. Flare resistance is much higher than the 8 elements; I stress tested it and tried hard to make it flare, but was not able to get any washed out shots even when shooting directly against the sun, I’d rank it similar to the V4/V5 Summicron 50mm in terms of flare resistance.

Overall, this is yet another amazing remake from Light Lens Lab. I wish Leica will continue to make more remakes, including the 8 elements or the Elcan, but for now the LLL is the next best thing and on par with anything coming out from Leica. I highly recommend LLL to anyone who doesn’t want to pay collector prices for the original lens. This is pretty much it, here are some photos of the lens mounted on the Leica M9-P so that you can see how it looks, and I’ll post a few pictures shot with the lens below. Hope you find it useful. If anyone owns this lens I’d love to hear your thoughts as well. Thank you!

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Edited December 25, 2021 by shirubadanieru

[shirubadanieru]

Shot at f2 : ) 

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[shirubadanieru]

Shot between f4 and f5.6 if I’m not mistaken. 

 

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[jankap]

Print/engraving "Made in Germany"? I doubt this!

This is a new lens made from metal and optical glass by modern machining. Why should not it make pictures?

Has the patents period passed by?

Edited December 25, 2021 by jankap

[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, jankap said:

Print/engraving "Made in Germany"? I doubt this!

This is a new lens made from metal and optical glass by modern machining. Why should not it make pictures?

Has the patents period passed by?

The engraving print ‘Made in Germany’ is in the filter from BW  The lens is made in China by Light Lens Lab. The lens is made of brass, and the optical formula is exactly the same as the original Elcan that Leica made. And yes, apparently the patents are no longer valid, that’s why Light Lens Lab was able to remake both the 8 elements, and the Elcan. It seems their next project will be the Hologon 15mm f8. 

 

PS - After pixel peeping, I was able to see that in high contrast areas near the edge of the picture / corners, the lens has some purple chromatic aberration. Fairly well controlled, but I’d say that the summicron does a better job here. Also for those who are interested, here’s a great video review of this lens! 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by shirubadanieru

[jankap]

Sorry, I did not notice the filter.

Elcan does not mean Summicron necessarily. Elcan developed lenses for the military. See the APO-Telyt 180mm f/3.4.

Perhaps the Elcans were made to use during the first May parades in Moscow by the invited Nato military observers. At the distance optimized.

Do you think your lens is made according to the original Leica documentation and the same glass formulas?

Edited December 25, 2021 by jankap

[Gobert]

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6 minutes ago, jankap said:

Sorry, I did not notice the filter.

Elcan does not mean Summicron necessarily. Elcan developed lenses for the military. See the APO-Telyt 180mm f/3.4.

Perhaps the Elcans were made to use during the first May parades in Moscow by the invited Nato military observers.

Do you think your lens is made according to the original Leica documentation and the same glass formulas?

lanthanum glass? I doubt.

[pippy]

The ELCAN was made to a slightly different spec. - and slightly lower overall performance - to the then-current Summicron. According to Dr. Mandler, who was largely in charge of the ELCAN design,

"The performance specifications did not require the image quality offered by the 5cm f2 Summicron......In image quality I would place it between the 5cm f2 Summitar and the first Summicron (or Summitar*).  The lens type that we have used is overstrained as far as field coverage goes."

This last point might very well be the reason that the OP noted in post #5;

"After pixel peeping, I was able to see that in high contrast areas near the edge of the picture / corners, the lens has some purple chromatic aberration. Fairly well controlled, but I’d say that the summicron does a better job here."

Interesting offering from LLL. Not sure who the target market is apart from 'The Curious Amongst Us' but, hey, that's a good enough reason in my book!

Philip.

Edited December 25, 2021 by pippy

[shirubadanieru]

17 minutes ago, Gobert said:

lanthanum glass? I doubt.

I'm not sure the glass used but basically LLL reverse engineered both the 8 elements & the Elcan to build these replicas & the MTF graphs are pretty much exactly the same as the original. In terms of glass used I was not aware Elcan used radioactive glass in its original form? 

I know for a fact that the glass used in the 8e replica is the same as the original as this was disclosed by Mr. Zhou (the lens maker) but regarding the Elcan there's very little information online for both the original & the replica to know for sure at this point.

[shirubadanieru]

29 minutes ago, jankap said:

Sorry, I did not notice the filter.

Elcan does not mean Summicron necessarily. Elcan developed lenses for the military. See the APO-Telyt 180mm f/3.4.

Perhaps the Elcans were made to use during the first May parades in Moscow by the invited Nato military observers. At the distance optimized.

Do you think your lens is made according to the original Leica documentation and the same glass formulas?

Yes, Light Lens Lab has been remaking leica classic lenses & accessories that have expired patents (e.g. 35mm viewfinder, 8e hood, and the two lenses mentioned here). The 8e replica was quite popular & is now being sold across the world in regular leica dealers (for example here in Japan mapcamera is selling them). 

The Elcan production line has just started so I'm guessing you'll start to see more availability in early 〜 mid 2022. 

[shirubadanieru]

11 minutes ago, pippy said:

The ELCAN was made to a slightly different spec. - and slightly lower overall performance - to the then-current Summicron. According to Dr. Mandler, who was largely in charge of the ELCAN design,

"The performance specifications did not require the image quality offered by the 5cm f2 Summicron......In image quality I would place it between the 5cm f2 Summitar and the first Summicron (or Summitar*).  The lens type that we have used is overstrained as far as field coverage goes."

Interesting offering from LLL. Not sure who the target market is apart from 'The Curious Amongst Us' but, hey, that's a good enough reason in my book!

Philip.

Yes, the elcan history is interesting & I've read everything that's available online about it (not a lot ahah). 

Just using it for a day though, I can say with confidence that this lens is way sharper than the collapsible & summitar. It is much closer to the rendering quality of the rigid. Of course I never actually used the original so it's hard to say 100% but the shop I bought it from is a reputable HK dealer & they were able to test the original & the replica side by side and said they had pretty much 98% same rendering. 

This report from LHSA seems to validate my own findings as well: https://m.imgur.com/a/myoqTSh

In terms of who this lens could be for, like you said those of us who are curious & not willing to pay a fortune to try the original (it was the only 50mm lens I'd never got to try from Leica). Another potential buyer would be people interested in the Leica Mandler rendering from the 50s 〜 70s, and in a small package (I believe the Elcan is the smallest 50mm Leica made, not sure if the modern summarit is smaller though). 

For me I love the rigid summicron but it is double the size of this lens, weights 50g ish more & only focuses down to 1m, so the Elcan definitely has its advantages when compared to the closest 50mm of a similar era. 

By the way I found the specs on leicarumors for those interested:

• For Leica M-mount, M39-mount version will also be available for an extra charge and it will include an adapter (you will need an M-mount adapter to use the lens on M-mount cameras)
• Weight: 200-235g depending on finishes
• Dimensions: 36mm width, 51mm length
• Filter thread: 39mm (e39)
• Design: 4 elements in 4 groups, ultra-astigmat design just like the original ELCAN on the KE-7A

[Al Brown]

I had it on a quick test for a day. It is an average performing 50mm lens (and so was the ELCAN, just as @pippy wrote above), nothing to write home about, I was hyped at first but very unimpressed (unlike the 8 element which I reviewed here in comparison to the original Leica version - that was impressive!).
All in all, it is really great that LLL is reviving the Leica historica this way - and in a choice of black paint as well (regular or brassed, lol). Hope more variety comes our way.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Al Brown

[shirubadanieru]

6 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I had it on a quick test for a day. It is an average performing 50mm lens (and so was the ELCAN, just as @pippy wrote above), nothing to write home about, I was hyped at first but very unimpressed (unlike the 8 element which I reviewed here in comparison to the original Leica version - that was impressive!).
All in all, it is really great that LLL is reviving the Leica historica this way - and in a choice of black paint as well (regular or brassed, lol). Hope more variety comes our way.

I also have the 8 elements and I was really impressed with it, truly amazing and I can’t distinguish the rendering from the original. I saw your review too, thank you!

I have to say I truly enjoyed shooting with the Elcan, and I was really pleased with the shots I got from it today, especially in the f2.8~f4 range. At f2 it also has a very unique bokeh which differs from the summicron. That being said, I don’t like clinical rendering and my favorite 50mm lenses are the Summicron rigid and the Elmar 50mm f3.5 / f2.8, and the Elcan performs at a similar quality as those, as in, very sharp in the center, beautiful bokeh, and not too clinical. 

Will be shooting it on film over the winter break so I’m looking forward to the results on film. Will share here sometime mid January  

[labyrinth]

I wonder if they plan to release a copy of lux 35 pre-aspherical?

[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, labyrinth said:

I wonder if they plan to release a copy of lux 35 pre-aspherical?

Oh that’d be awesome and definitely a remake Leica should do!! I’d much rather have that the previously rumored Summaron 35mm remake.

that being did that lens might be too recent / readily available for a remake although prices really going up indeed 

[adan]

The ELCAN lenses are sometimes the subject of mythology - to be taken with a grain of salt.

But I believe the (non-APO, BTW) 50mm f/2.0 was mostly designed to be very tolerant of extreme conditions, both regarding temperature (thermal expansion), and shock (explosions - up to and including nuclear blast waves at otherwise "safe" distances. ) Thus the four uncemented elements, which also make it compact.

It is not its image quality, but its rarity - and its "add-on value" when paired with a KE-7A (mil-spec-modified M4) companion body, that make it valuable.

http://www.tamarkin.com/blog/leica-m4-ke-7a-50mm-elcan-f2-lens

If you wanted a normal-ish field-of-view with high resolution, that was the realm of the 66mm f/2.0

Anyway, thanks for the report on the LLL reproduction

 

[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, adan said:

The ELCAN lenses are sometimes the subject of mythology - to be taken with a grain of salt.

But I believe the (non-APO, BTW) 50mm f/2.0 was mostly designed to be very tolerant of extreme conditions, both regarding temperature (thermal expansion), and shock (explosions - up to and including nuclear blast waves at otherwise "safe" distances. ) Thus the four uncemented elements, which also make it compact.

It is not its image quality, but its rarity - and its "add-on value" when paired with a KE-7A (mil-spec-modified M4) companion body, that make it valuable.

http://www.tamarkin.com/blog/leica-m4-ke-7a-50mm-elcan-f2-lens

If you wanted a normal-ish field-of-view with high resolution, that was the realm of the 66mm f/2.0

Anyway, thanks for the report on the LLL reproduction

 

Thanks Adan for sure the summicron V4/V5 are far superior if you want sharpness, especially wide open.

That being said, if you enjoy old style rendering from the 50/60s this lens is on par with the Summicron V1 〜 V3 & I'm sure you'll love it

Glow wise, collapsible glows the most, followed by Elcan & then rigid. It's definitely less glowy wide open than the 8 elements remake / original. 

Center sharpness, I'd say no difference between Elcan / Rigid.

Bokeh is different from any cron, so it's hard to compare.

Chromatic aberration is worse than any cron.

It flares less than V1〜3 summicron and similar to V4 summicron in terms of flare resistance. 

Here's an interesting test comparing the Elcan (original) APO Cron & DR Cron 50 too in case you haven't seen it

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2018/1/27/three-versions-of-the-leica-50mm-f2-summicron-apo-elcan-and-dual-range-on-the-leica-m10-and-fujifilm-superia-venus-800

[jaapv]

The original Elcan was supposed to have a very smooth. bokeh, The bokeh on this lens is a bit harsh, see the photograph of the leaves, the tree on the left has distracting double contours.  Nevertheless, the rendering of. some other shots, like the lady in the station is quite nice. Still, I question the remake of a lens that is not particularly noted for its optical qualities -  the Summicron of the time and above all the Canon 50/1.8 were markedly better.

[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

The original Elcan was supposed to have a very smooth. bokeh, The bokeh on this lens is a bit harsh, see the photograph of the leaves, the tree on the left has distracting double contours.  Nevertheless, the rendering of. some other shots, like the lady in the station is quite nice. Still, I question the remake of a lens that is not particularly noted for its optical qualities -  the Summicron of the time and above all the Canon 50/1.8 were markedly better.

yeah the bokeh is quite interesting! very different from other Leica 50mm lens. I have to shoot a few portraits to better understand how it renders OOF areas. Unfortunately besides the link above I posted I can't find pictures taken with the original one to compare Bokeh.

In regards as to why I can't answer obviously ahah but I'm guessing that given the rarity / price this is the only way one gets to try the Elcan. And other lenses outperforming it at the time, it may be true, but can't the same be said about Leica's own remakes? The Nikkor 28mm f3.5 LTM was better & brighter than the summaron 28mm, and the Noctilux 50 f1.2 is not the sharpest lens around, and there were lens that had outperformed it and were brighter from Zunow, Fujinon, Canon, and Nikon during the 1950s. As long as the remakes pay homage to historical lenses that have a unique rendering (regardless if they're better / sharper compared to other lens) I think that's ok. My favorite 50mm are def not the sharpest. Also the extra benefit is the size, a 50mm f2 this small simply does not exist in the lineup besides the Elcan. 

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[pippy]

2 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

......Also the extra benefit is the size, a 50mm f2 this small simply does not exist in the lineup besides the Elcan......

I've only just managed to find the time to watch the whole of the vid. clip you linked-to in post #5; I found it very interesting, informative and enjoyable so, first-off, thanks for that.

Yes; the very compact size is, I must say, something which I find very attractive. Much like the OP I'm not all that bothered by seeking-out absolute optical perfection in every lens I use (to put it mildly) so the slight drop in IQ from my v4 Summicron to this isn't something which would bother me at all. I must say I find it a very interesting proposition. In terms of how it renders it would probably be a very good alternative fitting-in somewhere between the f1.5 Summarit and the v4 Summicron. Add-in the very small size and I see how very tempting the LLL could be.

Shame an 'IROOA' recreation isn't part of the package (as I believe it to be with their 8-Element) but as the lens will take a regular 12585 it's not much of a handicap.

Food for thought...

One last thing; it says in the spec's that the lens' dimensions are "36mm Width; 51mm Length". I believe they've got those sizes the wrong way 'round. If not then the 'ELCAN' is longer than the v4 Summicon. I've just checked and my v4 is 42mm Long and 51mm Wide. Perhaps shirubadanieru could enlighten us?

Philip.

EDIT : Didn't fully appreciate this image previously;

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It just became even more interesting!

Edited December 26, 2021 by pippy