jaapv Posted December 26, 2021 Share #21 Posted December 26, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, shirubadanieru said: a 50mm f2 this small simply does not exist in the lineup besides the Elcan. Well, there is the Summicron-C 40... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 26, 2021 Posted December 26, 2021 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Light Lens Lab Elcan 50mm f2 Review. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pippy Posted December 26, 2021 Share #22 Posted December 26, 2021 Just now, jaapv said: Well, there is the Summicron-C 40... Wow! Is that really a 50mm in disguise, Jaap?.................. Philip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 26, 2021 Share #23 Posted December 26, 2021 I think so It was meant as such on the CL (film) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradS Posted December 26, 2021 Share #24 Posted December 26, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, adan said: The ELCAN lenses are sometimes the subject of mythology - to be taken with a grain of salt.... This is true of pretty much everything written about Leica. A lot of mythology and marketing hype... Edited December 26, 2021 by BradS 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradS Posted December 26, 2021 Share #25 Posted December 26, 2021 (edited) It looks like a very interesting lens indeed. I very much appreciate that it is compact and light weight....and makes beautiful photos. Thank you for bringing this lens to our attention. They really knocked it out of the park with their 35mm 8-element. This one looks to be a winner too. It is heartening to see companies like this joining Cosina, 7Artisans, and the like who supply the market with "compact, unobtrusive and not-quite-so-obnoxiously-overpriced". I do wish Leica would wake up and take notice. They seem to be loosing sight of what a rangefinder is all about. Edited December 26, 2021 by BradS 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 26, 2021 Share #26 Posted December 26, 2021 If I asked: "what is a rangefinder about?" on this forum I would end up with a dozen answers, at the very least. 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cboy Posted December 26, 2021 Share #27 Posted December 26, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Probably Leica needs a heritage/ classic lens lineup that reissues or revamps older models compared to their newer Swiss army flashier models. Question is can they improve them without making them obnoxiously oversized relative the rangefinder form factor ie viewfinder blockage, balance. All the while still being accessible to a wide audience. And still being innovative rather a direct copy of the past... Their new summarit line had a promising concept but perhaps released too early in time to be appreciated, or didn't resonate to the legacy of its namesake. Or perhaps the Leica community is too fickle in their demands lol Glad that LLL values Leica legacy glass for todays folk. Edited December 26, 2021 by cboy 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 26, 2021 Share #28 Posted December 26, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, cboy said: Probably Leica needs a heritage/ classic lens lineup that reissues or revamps older models compared to their newer Swiss army flashier models.... ......Their new summarit line had a promising concept but perhaps released too early in time to be appreciated, or didn't resonate to the legacy of its namesake...... I was thinking along much the same lines but there have been a few Leica Heritage releases which do hark back to the classic designs such as the 20mm f5.6 Summaron, the 50mm f1.4 Summilux 'Retro' edition and the 50mm f1.2 Noctilux. Leica must find themselves in a strange position. On the one hand they almost have a duty to carry on the quest for optical excellence - which comes at a price - but at the same time they must be aware that not all Leica users really want everything to be an ASPH/APO/FLE design. Look at some of the current lenses in the50mm f/l range as an example. It is possible to buy a v5 Summicron for a pretty reasonable (IMO) £1,995. You want one stop faster? That will cost you £3,665 - that is £1,670 for one extra stop! If, on the other hand, you are satisfied with the slow speed of an f2 50mm but would like it APO and ASPH? That will be £6,365 - an extra £4,370 / 3x the price(!) compared with the v5. Personally I don't really care too much about my lenses being ASPH/APO/FLE; they all seem to work extremely well for my needs as they are. But if the likes of Voigtlander are bringing out ASPH/APO designs which can outperform the non-ASPH/APO Leica lenses then what else can Leica do but contunue trying to create the best lenses they possibly can? And so the merry-go-round goes round and round and round and...... The modern-era Summarits are another case. I only have the 75 and 90 and both are the older f2.5 versions rather than the closer min. focussing f2.4(*). They are superb lenses. From what I've read by many members here whose opinions I rate highly the 35 and 50 lenses are similarly great performers. Why did some folks 'rubbish' the range? Well, usually it was because the focus-rings are made from rubber. Seriously? Yes; seriously. Not the stellar optical performance; not the superb handling; not the compact size; not the light weight. A rubber focus ring. Sad times. Philip. * Apparently the older lenses were also "about f2.4" but as they might have been, in some test situation, just that bit slower (I think I read f2.42) Leica decided not to risk calling them faster than they really were. Herr Puts - AFAICR - measured both f2.5 and f2.4 ranges and found their f-stop results to be identical. Edited December 26, 2021 by pippy 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted December 26, 2021 Author Share #29 Posted December 26, 2021 5 hours ago, BradS said: It looks like a very interesting lens indeed. I very much appreciate that it is compact and light weight....and makes beautiful photos. Thank you for bringing this lens to our attention. They really knocked it out of the park with their 35mm 8-element. This one looks to be a winner too. It is heartening to see companies like this joining Cosina, 7Artisans, and the like who supply the market with "compact, unobtrusive and not-quite-so-obnoxiously-overpriced". I do wish Leica would wake up and take notice. They seem to be loosing sight of what a rangefinder is all about. I agree, I really don’t like the current leica lens design philosophy…big, super sharp, heavy. A good example of that is the summicron 35mm, which used to be a tiny lens and is now as big as the summilux pretty much. Or even the summilux 35mm went from being a tiny lens to weight over 300g 😕 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted December 26, 2021 Author Share #30 Posted December 26, 2021 2 hours ago, cboy said: Probably Leica needs a heritage/ classic lens lineup that reissues or revamps older models compared to their newer Swiss army flashier models. Question is can they improve them without making them obnoxiously oversized relative the rangefinder form factor ie viewfinder blockage, balance. All the while still being accessible to a wide audience. And still being innovative rather a direct copy of the past... Their new summarit line had a promising concept but perhaps released too early in time to be appreciated, or didn't resonate to the legacy of its namesake. Or perhaps the Leica community is too fickle in their demands lol Glad that LLL values Leica legacy glass for todays folk. Yeah I’d hope that all Leica V1 / V2 Summicron and Summilux would be remade under a heritage line. Unfortunately the lenses are now collector items and most of them have haze anyway… The summarit was nice that they were small and light but to me I never liked them because they were just sharp / clinical lenses, nothing special about them besides the size. So yeah, I love LLL, it’s like using Leica lenses from the past, which I’m really happy about! Wish Leica releases more heritage lenses soon! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted December 26, 2021 Author Share #31 Posted December 26, 2021 22 minutes ago, pippy said: I was thinking along much the same lines but there have been a few Leica Heritage releases which do hark back to the classic designs such as the 20mm f5.6 Summaron, the 50mm f1.4 Summilux 'Retro' edition and the 50mm f1.2 Noctilux. Leica must find themselves in a strange position. On the one hand they almost have a duty to carry on the quest for optical excellence - which comes at a price - but at the same time they must be aware that not all Leica users really want everything to be an ASPH/APO/FLE design. Look at some of the current lenses in the50mm f/l range as an example. It is possible to buy a v5 Summicron for a pretty reasonable (IMO) £1,995. You want one stop faster? That will cost you £3,665 - that is £1,670 for one extra stop!). If, on the other hand, you are satisfied with the slow speed of an f2 50mm but would like it APO and ASPH? That will be £6,365 - an extra £4,370 / 3x the price(!) compared with the v5. Personally I don't really care too much about my lenses being ASPH/APO/FLE; they all seem to work extremely well for my needs as they are. But if the likes of Voigtlander are bringing out ASPH/APO designs which can outperform the non-ASPH/APO Leica lenses then what else can Leica do but contunue trying to create the best lenses they possibly can? And so the merry-go-round goes round and round and round and...... The modern-era Summarits are another case. I only have the 75 and 90 and both are the older f2.5 versions rather than the closer min. focussing f2.4(*). They are superb lenses. From what I've read by many members here whose opinions I rate highly the 35 and 50 lenses are similarly great performers. Why did some folks 'rubbish' the range? Well, usually it was because the focus-rings are made from rubber. Seriously? Yes; seriously. Not the stellar optical performance; not the superb handling; not the compact size; not the light weight. A rubber focus ring. Sad times. Philip. * Apparently the older lenses were also "about f2.4" but as they might have been, in some test situation, just that bit slower (I think I read f2.42) Leica decided not to risk calling them faster tan they really were. Herr Puts - AFAICR - measured both f2.5 and f2.4 ranges and found their f-stop results to be identical. That;s a good point, but one that I think has an easy fix. And actually, if you look at voigtlander’s lens lineup, they have the super sharp, apo, best they can build lineup, and then they have their heritage lens lineup too.If Leica followed the same strategy with their lenses / bodies, I think almost every Leica user would be happy. High performing lens: APO-series (and SL camera/lenses) Classical rendering: Non-ASPH series (similar to their remakes so far, but we need a bit more lens here to make it a viable option). I’m sure if Leica released a 8 elements remake everyone would prefer to buy that over a 3rd party remake (unless the cost difference was too high), but for now the only companies doing so is LLL and Voigtlander (although they don’t call their lens Leica remakes it’s pretty easy to see where they get their inspiration from for lenses like the 35mm f1.4 ) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 27, 2021 Share #32 Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said: That's a good point, but one that I think has an easy fix. And actually, if you look at voigtlander’s lens lineup, they have the super sharp, apo, best they can build lineup, and then they have their heritage lens lineup too.If Leica followed the same strategy with their lenses......I think almost every Leica user would be happy... I don't want to take your thread down any rabbit-hole, shirubadanieru, but I'm not so sure it would be such an easy fix at all. Let's take a 35mm f2 lens as an example. Voigtlander, as you say, has their 'Vintage Line' and also their more 'modern rendering' range. The modern lens is an ASPH APO optical design and is, by all accounts, astonishing. Their 'Vintage Line', though, is vintage mostly in terms of external appearance; both the v1 and v2 styles are ASPH optical designs. These do not render in the same way as, for instance, a Leica 8-Element Summicron. Leica, like Voigtlander, also has an APO lens and an ASPH lens in the 35mm f2 range. Does Leica introduce a third truly 'Heritage' series into their line-up? A recreation of the 8-Element? The ASPH Leica lens is already four times the price of the ASPH Voigtlander. Where would a recreation of the 8-Element fit within their pricing structure? Above the ASPH?...... I'm absolutely certain that there would be buyers willing to hand over the asking price but is this recreation of their back-catalogue - in optical terms - a direction Leica really wants to follow? Harking back to the 'Glory Days' of their past rather than looking towards their future? Philip. Edited December 27, 2021 by pippy 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscheffler Posted December 28, 2021 Share #33 Posted December 28, 2021 Either Leica does it, or someone else, like LLL will do it. The second LLL replica was supposed to be the 50/1.2 Noctilux, but then out of the blue, Leica released their re-release of it. 😁 Regarding LLL doing a 35 Lux pre-ASPH: when Kevin over on the RFF thread was requesting feedback, it my first suggestion. I'd love to have access to that lens but at non-collector pricing. But that was based on the assumption that if the 35 Cron replica was $500, then a Lux replica might be $1000? However, the $500 Cron price point was short-lived and it now sells for over double. So what would a Lux replica sell for? This is also my 'issue' with the Elcan. Yeah, I'd drop $500 for a character 50, but not USD 1400 from a seller local to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted December 28, 2021 Author Share #34 Posted December 28, 2021 On 12/26/2021 at 11:23 PM, pippy said: I've only just managed to find the time to watch the whole of the vid. clip you linked-to in post #5; I found it very interesting, informative and enjoyable so, first-off, thanks for that. Yes; the very compact size is, I must say, something which I find very attractive. Much like the OP I'm not all that bothered by seeking-out absolute optical perfection in every lens I use (to put it mildly) so the slight drop in IQ from my v4 Summicron to this isn't something which would bother me at all. I must say I find it a very interesting proposition. In terms of how it renders it would probably be a very good alternative fitting-in somewhere between the f1.5 Summarit and the v4 Summicron. Add-in the very small size and I see how very tempting the LLL could be. Shame an 'IROOA' recreation isn't part of the package (as I believe it to be with their 8-Element) but as the lens will take a regular 12585 it's not much of a handicap. Food for thought... One last thing; it says in the spec's that the lens' dimensions are "36mm Width; 51mm Length". I believe they've got those sizes the wrong way 'round. If not then the 'ELCAN' is longer than the v4 Summicon. I've just checked and my v4 is 42mm Long and 51mm Wide. Perhaps shirubadanieru could enlighten us? Philip. EDIT : Didn't fully appreciate this image previously; Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It just became even more interesting! Ah yes you can get a l mount of it too which is amazing and yes I believe they got the measures incorrectly it should be the other way around 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted December 28, 2021 Author Share #35 Posted December 28, 2021 2 hours ago, rscheffler said: Either Leica does it, or someone else, like LLL will do it. The second LLL replica was supposed to be the 50/1.2 Noctilux, but then out of the blue, Leica released their re-release of it. 😁 Regarding LLL doing a 35 Lux pre-ASPH: when Kevin over on the RFF thread was requesting feedback, it my first suggestion. I'd love to have access to that lens but at non-collector pricing. But that was based on the assumption that if the 35 Cron replica was $500, then a Lux replica might be $1000? However, the $500 Cron price point was short-lived and it now sells for over double. So what would a Lux replica sell for? This is also my 'issue' with the Elcan. Yeah, I'd drop $500 for a character 50, but not USD 1400 from a seller local to me. A steel rim Summilux replica that goes down to 0.7m focus distance would be the best remake of all time 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtai Posted December 28, 2021 Share #36 Posted December 28, 2021 I have heard of the Elcan but didn’t know anything about it. Anyway did you visit Enoshima? I am jealous. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted December 28, 2021 Author Share #37 Posted December 28, 2021 40 minutes ago, rtai said: I have heard of the Elcan but didn’t know anything about it. Anyway did you visit Enoshima? I am jealous. Yeah very rare lens indeed I’d never be able to use it if it wasn’t for this replica and no I didn’t go all the way to enoshima ahah 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share #38 Posted January 7, 2022 And as promised here are some film photos shot with the Elcan…the rendering is just beautiful. Tri-X 400 shot at f2 and f11 respectively. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/327789-light-lens-lab-elcan-50mm-f2-review/?do=findComment&comment=4347266'>More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share #39 Posted January 7, 2022 Now some color ones, shot wide open first Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/327789-light-lens-lab-elcan-50mm-f2-review/?do=findComment&comment=4347267'>More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share #40 Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) And some closed down between f2.8 and f5.6 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 7, 2022 by shirubadanieru 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/327789-light-lens-lab-elcan-50mm-f2-review/?do=findComment&comment=4347274'>More sharing options...
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