What is the ideal 35/50 lens pairing with the M10R and M10M?

[jaeger]

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16 hours ago, KateStarr said:

That said, your point about "what type of images" is a valid one for sure. I guess I would then amend the question to ask which current Leica 35 and 50 YOU would choose given your own preferences.

I think the RF has 10% successful rate focusing the iris using Noct wild open, some ppl stop down but then why pay for something don't use.  I mostly shoot portraiture, and I love vintage lenses so corner sharpest, distortion and vignetting are not bothering me at all.  I also love to shoot indoor or in the dark without flash, therefore Summilux is my favorite. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by jaeger

[pippy]

8 hours ago, jaeger said:

I think the RF has 10% successful rate focusing the iris using Noct wild open...

With all due respect, jaeger, I think the RF has 100% success rate; it's the photographer (alas!) who manages the 10% success rate......

Philip.

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[Jeff S]

10 minutes ago, pippy said:

With all due respect, jaeger, I think the RF has 100% success rate; it's the photographer (alas!) who manages the 10% success rate......

Philip.

Provided the RF is well calibrated, as well as the lens.

Jeff

[Herr Barnack]

On 6/24/2021 at 5:32 PM, 250swb said:

It isn't an ideal pairing. If you are only aiming for two lenses don't have them separated by the distance you can walk to get the alternate view. I can understand a 28mm and a 50mm, but not a 35mm and a 50mm. 

If you look at the portfolios in back issues of LFI magazine, you will not have to look very long to find that more than a few photographers featured use both a 28mm and a 35mm, in addition to a to a 50mm.

A 28mm and a 35mm shooting the same subject or scene will produce two distinctly different images - to my eye.  It is not exactly easy to put into words, but the difference is about more than +/- 7mm in focal length.  28mm and 35mm just have a different feel or visual fingerprint to them.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Ernstk]

Your question can only be answered by you. No one here can tell you what the ideal pairing is.

It will be driven by the image characteristics that appeal to you. Once you have defined them, then choose the lenses that best deliver what you like.

Ernst

[Ernstk]

On 6/24/2021 at 10:07 PM, a.noctilux said:

😉

For me, no 'ideal answer' possible.

We have our idea (or ideal) that would not be duplicated by someone else.

I completely agree Arnaud. It's such a personal choice.

Ernst

[shirubadanieru]

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If you like vintage rendering, the older lenses (any leica lens from 1930s~1960s) look great on new sensors. My favorites:

- 50mm Rigid Summicron / Summilux Chrome V1/V2

- 35mm Summicron V1 / Summilux (but quite glowy so not to everyone’s taste)

[250swb]

9 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

If you look at the portfolios in back issues of LFI magazine, you will not have to look very long to find that more than a few photographers featured use both a 28mm and a 35mm, in addition to a to a 50mm.

A 28mm and a 35mm shooting the same subject or scene will produce two distinctly different images - to my eye.  It is not exactly easy to put into words, but the difference is about more than +/- 7mm in focal length.  28mm and 35mm just have a different feel or visual fingerprint to them.

But the original question was for buying TWO lenses, presumably to go with a new body. I know a 28 and a 50 offer very different views and in actual fact that is exactly why I suggested it. If you only have TWO lenses it makes far more sense to miss out the one in the middle and give yourself more options, in this case that would be leaving out the 35. If you have THREE lenses then sure, carry them all, a 28, 35, and 50. But there comes a point where you might also want something longer or wider as well, and your back is breaking with the weight. Do you seriously then think carrying every incremental focal length is sensible, no of course not, you need to make decisions.  

Once upon a time choosing a range of lenses was to buy your preferred base focal length first and then fill-out the range where your preferences lay. So a 50 was always a good beginning, the a 28, then maybe either a 21 or 90. Or start with a 35, then a 75 and a 24. It's both a practical solution and gives most real world solutions to framing. Before zoom lenses became suitable a professional wouldn't carry every focal length, they would carry the ones that gave most options. So if you had a 50 on your camera you didn't need to rummage in your camera bag to get a 75, you'd most likely just say 'hang on I'll get a bit closer'. For different photographers a 35 OR a 50 are their standard lens, and the choice can vary over time, but to know which to go for I think you need to see the alternative view, not a view so close the choice is meaningless. Lean closer and a 35 can mimic a 50, step back and a 50 can look like a 35, that is why many people ask 'what lens did you use?', certain angles of view can often be interchangeable in the viewers' eye. It's not a perfect theory, but neither is it stultifyingly pedantic.

The OP may not have described the whole situation, perhaps they have all the other focal lengths and do indeed only need a 35 and a 50 to complete. But if it is just TWO lenses for a new camera starting with what are effectively two competing 'standard' lenses just about nails the blinkers on the horse. And if anybody wants to add that they've always (genuinely) only carried around only a 35 and a 50, and it worked for you, then good for you, I disagree though.

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by 250swb

[autograph]

35 Apo, for street, general purpose, close-up

50mm Lux for creamy-dreamy portrait

[a.noctilux]

On 6/25/2021 at 1:06 AM, pippy said:

50mm f1.2 Noctilux and 35mm Summicron.

Philip.

Like Philip's choice, if I begin with no lens at all.

Maybe I'd take Summilux-M asph. in 35mm (the one that I appreciate a lot for so long, but no more present product, it's not FLE).

New Noctilux-M 1.2/50 is hard to obtain though as seen here

[RayD28]

50 1.4 asph and 28 2.8 asph v1 or v2, based on my first hand knowledge.  I’ve not used a 10R but I believe those two lenses would adequately take advantage of the 41 megapixels. 

I have no experience with the Nocti’s or apo‘s. 

If money is no object you might consider renting some of the lenses mentioned and then make your choice. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by RayD28

[fotografr]

Image quality is certainly a major consideration, but size and weight should also be part of the decision. If you like to carry a camera constantly, like I do, then a Noctilux isn't a great choice. I love the 50mm Summilux ASPH (which is also an APO lens) for it's small size, light weight and superb image quality. The 35mm Summicron is a very good choice for the same reasons. 

[Narsuitus]

For my shooting style, subject matter, and taste, the 35mm f/1.4 Zeiss Distagon or Leitz Summilux would be my first choice.

Since I am not a big fan of the 50mm focal length, any 50mm Leitz will do. However, if I am forced to pay for it, I will select the least expensive. If forced to accept one as a gift, I prefer to accept the most expensive.

 

[250swb]

6 hours ago, fotografr said:

Image quality is certainly a major consideration,

I take your point, but if image quality was a major consideration in any of these lens discussions the first question would be 'what tripod do you use?' We've laughably had people bobbing up and down on boats and saying how wonderfully the 50 Apo performs. So no, image quality is mostly an entirely fictional construct on the Leica forum unless 'good enough' becomes a rational and realistic answer, which it should, or if people actually embrace the idea of going beyond their own bounds of what 'image quality' amounts to by using a tripod instead of waving their camera in the air.

[fotografr]

2 hours ago, 250swb said:

I take your point, but if image quality was a major consideration in any of these lens discussions the first question would be 'what tripod do you use?' We've laughably had people bobbing up and down on boats and saying how wonderfully the 50 Apo performs. So no, image quality is mostly an entirely fictional construct on the Leica forum unless 'good enough' becomes a rational and realistic answer, which it should, or if people actually embrace the idea of going beyond their own bounds of what 'image quality' amounts to by using a tripod instead of waving their camera in the air.

You seem to be saying image quality has more to do with using a tripod than the glass you attach to the front of your camera. While I would agree that using a tripod is important in some situations, the assertion that you can't discuss lens performance without tripods being considered is a bit silly. Contrast, CA, distortion and flare resistance have nothing to do with how steady someone can hold a camera and all are part of the discussion of image quality. It's not just sharpness.

Tripods are necessary for macro, landscapes, cityscapes and architectural work, but can you imagine a street shooter using one? Or a photojournalist? Not everyone who shoots without a tripod is "waving their camera in the air." 

[250swb]

5 hours ago, fotografr said:

You seem to be saying image quality has more to do with using a tripod than the glass you attach to the front of your camera.

I seemed to be saying nothing of the sort. I did say if image quality is so important people would/should use a tripod, but as most of the time they don't use a tripod 'good enough' should be a good enough answer when considering the performance of a lens. And I disagree completely with your idea that tripods are 'necessary' for macro, landscapes, cityscapes and architecture, but there is no point in having the best lens if the execution of the photograph isn't also the best. If that isn't the case answer me this, all things considered when Leica introduce IBIS into an M camera will people notice the difference, or indeed will they switch it off because their 50mm Apo looks better without it?

 

[jaapv]

I find that IBIS only improves image quality at (very) long shutter times and/or focal lengths, and cannot approach the results from a stable tripod. It is useful, but overrated and does promote poor camera handling technique. 

[pgk]

Personally, I would buy the two lenses that I actually have. Does that help?

The problem is that the question is similar to 'how long is a piece of string', in that the answers refect too many diverse reasons for buying lenses. Soe will buy what they deem to be necessary for their photography, others will buy faster aperture lenses 'just in case' and some will buy for the thrill of owning 'the best'. The ideal pairing is the one which produces the results required and only the person buying can determine that. Any other responses will, as has been already stated, provide a myriad of choices. The fact that Leica offers a selection of 35 and 50mm lenses should tell us that there are enough buyers to justify such choice.

Edited July 12, 2021 by pgk

[jaapv]

However, I regard the Noctilux as a specialist lens. If you don't use it wide open and lack the skills to produce really interesting shallow-DOF photographs, its drawbacks: bulk, weight and price far outweigh its perceived advantage. It is no better than any other 50 mm when stopped down.

We only have to go to this forum to pick out the photographers who really know how to use it.  And those who mistakenly see it as a standard 50 mm lens.

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[pippy]

10 hours ago, 250swb said:

......'good enough' should be a good enough answer when considering the performance of a lens......

I couldn't possibly agree more.

It must be noted that the choice of which definition of 'good enough' we consider here is also important; in this context it is not one which means 'mediocre' but rather one which means 'fully satisfies the requirements'.

Philip.