M10R Still Worth It?

[ktmrider2]

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I have the opportunity to pick up a new M10R for US$6250 and am wondering if it is still worth it or should I look at the M11?  I have been using Leicas from as far back as 1975 with my purchase of a Leica CL.  I have owned all the Leica film cameras up to and including the M6TTL.  I have also owned the M9 and MP240 which I sold about three years ago.  My present Leica is a mint black M4.  My digital system is a Fuji X-T5 and a Ricoh GR3.

Now, I am also considering a Leica MP or MA as I prefer film but processing is turning in a PIA.  If I picked up a digital Leica (have five M mount lenses), I would sell the Fuji.  Have been looking at lots of You Tube videos and have not yet handled either M10R or M11.  I have to say I enjoy the whole process of using the M4 and film.  But I also appreciate technology and the Fuji has produced some amazing results.  I usually just set it to auto everything and just monitor exposure information in the viewfinder.  So I enjoy both old school (if I buy film body it will be MA) but don't mind the camera setting the exposure. 

I am a retired pilot who is 71 years old.  I do a lot of traveling and most of my photography is either travel or family related.  I can afford Leica but kind of turned off by the "jewelry" aspect.  I know the ultimate decision is mine but am looking for any and all input.  I can see advantages to traveling with digital but it is hard to beat the enjoyment of using a Leica.  Thanks!

Edited February 18 by ktmrider2

[JoshuaRothman]

I don't own an M10-R, but have an M10 and an M10M, and often shoot a film  M. And I've been thinking a lot about upgrading my M10 to an M10-R or M11. So I can't tell you anything first-hand about whether an M10-R is worth it, but I can share my thought process as of now.

First, the M11. I find many of the features it offers appealing, especially low ISO and high ISO capability, USB charging, and multiple resolutions. But I'm deeply unnerved by the freezing and corrupted-file problems, and I also struggle to see myself carrying an eight or nine thousand dollar camera with me everywhere. Right now, I take my M10 to the beach, on boats, on bikes, on hikes, even sometimes into the pool; I leave it sitting on the table where, in theory, my small kids could grab it and drop it. I doubt I'd be able to do those kinds of things with an M11. I could afford to replace an M10; not an M11. So between the technical issues and the sheer cost of the camera, it's out of the running. (For me.)

That brings us to the M10-R. Currently M10-R prices are hovering just above $6,200 USD. For that—compared to a plain-vanilla M10 at around $4,200—you get 40MP, a slightly better sensor, a touch screen, and the quiet shutter. I have a version of this in my M10M. It's a sweet camera—really sweet.

But then there's the M10. There are lots of them for sale, some for as little as $4,000. When I compare the performance of my M10 to my M10M, I find that I don't care about the resolution difference, or the shutter sound, or even the differences in sensor performance. The M10's 24MP is fine, even for printing big, even with some cropping, and the shutter sound is actually very unobtrusive as long as you're not aiming for absolute stealth (in which case you want a leaf shutter anyway). The M10 is known for having less highlight headroom, but I find this to be a "forum problem," not a real-life problem, and just now I recovered highlights from a shot I accidentally over-exposed by two stops. (I don't doubt it's an issue, but I just expose for the highlights and it's fine; I think of this as knowing how to use my camera.) I like owning a black-and-white digital body, and so enjoy the M10M, but if it were just a monochrome M10 instead of a monochrome M10-R, I'd be perfectly happy. 

At the end of the day, for me, it comes down to money. (And money is different for everyone.) For me, my M10 is just "cheap" enough that I can use it in every imaginable circumstance without worrying about it. (That's dependent on my financial "headroom," of course.) And actually, I'm never even slightly disappointed in the M10's output or the user experience. So my overall conclusion has been that the M10-R is not worth it vs. the M10. Again, that's my conclusion for me.

If I were buying a digital Leica from scratch, and could afford an M10-R, and found a deal, would I buy one? Sure, probably. But I might also choose to take an M10 and a vacation, or an M10 and a really great lens to go with it.

Edited February 19 by JoshuaRothman

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[dpitt]

2 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

 I have also owned the M9 and MP240 which I sold about three years ago.  

I still own a M9 and M8 now. And I have been using  an M8 since 2010 and an M9 since 2015. I am on the same page as @JoshuaRothman regarding the value thing. Both of my M's were bought used, and when a newer model was available. I even could afford a brand new M9 because I upgraded my first M8 to a M9 because of the infamous coffee stain issue. When I got my brand new M9 in 2013 it was so valuable that I was afraid to carry it around everywhere, so I never used it and traded it for a nice used M8, and used the extra money to buy a nice used lens. It was only a few years later that I found a M9 with heavy signs of use which is still mine now.

You have owned the M9 and MP240. Why did you sell them?  What are you looking for in the M10R or M11 that the MP240 did not do? I think these are important questions.

I am still happy with what my M9 delivers. And even the M8 could keep me happy today. Although I have been looking forward to owning an EVF capable M since the M240 was released, I could not justify the cost of the upgrade until now. I am thinking of an upgrade to a M10, but I do not feel the need to look further. In fact, going beyond 24MP could bring a whole set of other concerns like storage, post processing power of your computer hardware, resolution of my current set of lenses, etc...

So my short answer is that any digital M is worth its price now. In case of older ones, it holds the risk of total loss when it develops a serious issue, but that risk is reflected in the price. Leica usually supports older models up to 10 years after release in full and a bit beyond that as far as spare part stock goes. The M10R will reach that 'no service' point a few years earlier than a M11. Either one has the potential to last for 20 years from today without issues.

[LeicaR10]

Ktmrider2,  I see you have replies to your question about getting at M10-R or M11.   My reply is to the point.  Buy the M10-R.  I have owned all three versions of the M11, previously M10 and M10-R.  Plus all the previous digital M camera models for my business.  I found the M11 for me, to be the most over the top with features, frustrating faulty (firmware) and most unreliable M camera to date.  Just my experience and choice to return to the M10-R and M10-M.  The M10-R IMO, delivers the second best color only to the SL2-S.  It is very reliable and most issue free digital M camera.  Personally, I was thinking 60 Mp with binable pixels would be great.  For me, it did nothing for my photography.  With the M10-R and and M10 for that matter, I create 4 ft X 6 ft prints with no issue.  The camera performs brillianly in low light wtih little noise that is easily corrected.  The M11 shutter became unacceptable for me.  I had to make difficult choices, but IMO, the M10-R is simply the best digital M camera made.  Just my opinion and nearly 50 years of using Leica products and experience.  You will not regret getting the M10-R or even a M10 if you decide to go that route.  Just my opinion and experience as a former M11 owner/user...been there, done that, glad I went back.  r/ Mark

PS...Your AMEX card will appreciate your choice too with the M10-R.

[Jeff S]

34 minutes ago, dpitt said:

You have owned the M9 and MP240. Why did you sell them?  What are you looking for in the M10R or M11 that the MP240 did not do? I think these are important questions.

 

+1

Jeff

[jakontil]

I have used M11 extensively since it was released, and i kept my M10r during those times, just recently sold my M11, not because of faulty firmware or anything, it was rock solid since the beginning, but for my M usage i think M10r fits me as well, and the M11 still generated good price, love its battery and the convenience of usb c charging, but other than that i see no advantage over the other.. and both retains highlights better compared to previous M

im shooting less with films though, may be the process since i always develop at home

[Hans-Dieter Gülicher]

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I have Q2, M 10-R and S3, but I am an old fashend user and a rather old boy. That means weight and volume of my equipment are playing a certain role. Because of these facts I am using my M 10-R plus APO-Summicron 35 mm more and more. Furthermore I prefer the manual use. Last year I was travelling to Antarctica and Atacama with this combo. It was my absolutely correct decission.

[Smudgerer]

My response to ktmrider2 is yes......To be honest I think that the M11 offers much more capability than most users would honestly ever need to use, and with that complexitity, as we see, comes some still unresolved problems.

M10-R is still very much worth the consideration, and so is the M10 too come to that, ( my preferrence being for the M10-P ). Either M10 will prove to be more that good enough for most photographer's needs at probably close to half the expenditure. I'd try to buy a "certified pre-owned" one from a Leica Store that would come with a one year Leica warranty on the purchase that can be extended when registered with a Leica Owners account, what's not to like about that?

[costa43]

9 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

If I picked up a digital Leica (have five M mount lenses), I would sell the Fuji.

I'm not sure if this applies to you but I find it useful to keep a Fuji body alongside my Leica M kit for when I want to take advantage of telephoto lenses and video.

9 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I can afford Leica but kind of turned off by the "jewelry" aspect.

I understand this to some degree, the prices are getting quite silly now for the latest M bodies. The difference I find with Leica and some other 'brands' is that Leica also excels at its core function and is not just for show.

9 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I have also owned the M9 and MP240 which I sold about three years ago

I echo the question that dpitt above asked.

 

9 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I have the opportunity to pick up a new M10R for US$6250 and am wondering if it is still worth it or should I look at the M11?

There have been a number of threads on the m10r vs m11 on this forum that you can refer to but for me, the m10r is much better than I am and I am not enamoured by the m11 at all. It is too unstable a platform and for the price they are asking, this is totally unacceptable to me. 

[Al Brown]

ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT. It is positive that you sold the M9 and M240, the M10-R is on another level - every digital M after M10 is. Ilove mine so much I am not getting the M11 at all as I do not need any of its extra functions and resolution. I consider the M10-R the pinnacle in stability and price-performance of digital M cameras as of today's date (February 2024). I would get another one any given second.

[Al Brown]

7 hours ago, dpitt said:

What are you looking for in the M10R or M11 that the MP240 did not do?

There are at *least* ten factual reasons like better resolution, better buffer, new sensor design (not from 2013), better highlight recovery, slim body, better dynamic range, better UX/UI, no green shadows etc. etc. and that is for M240 ALONE, but let's leave it to the OP to list his reasons.

[Knipsknecht]

As others pointed out above the question is, what you are hoping to get from a M10-R that you don't cover with your other cameras. Personally I don't see the necessity regarding your camera lineup, but - of course - sometimes we all feel this drive to buy something new (even if it's used)😉.

I own a M10-R (besides a M6 and a M7) and as a second digital camera I own a Panasonic Lumix S5 (with the L-Mount that is used by the Leica SL cameras, too). Actually I like to switch from time to time between the M10-R and the S5. I like to have the S5 with me when I am traveling, as the camera and the 20-60 "Kit"-lens (which is boxing above it's weight-class) are both weather sealed and a relative lightweight combo. 

So, if you prefer to shoot your M4 in general, the Fuji X-T5 with its 40MP sensor and weather protection could be a great addition to your analog shooting experience - especially for your travel photography. A M10-R could do this job, too, but at much higher cost - and the "jewelry" aspect. On the other hand, the difference in shooting experience between a M4 and a M10-R is of course much smaller compared to the difference between a M4 and a X-T5.

... ggod luck for your decision😉!!!  

[ktmrider2]

Thanks for the input.  I have four more days until I head to Hong Kong so still thinking.  As I explained before, I enjoy film primarily due to using it since 1966.  I spent my college years and a couple years thereafter as a newspaper photographer before becoming a professional pilot.  I have owned various models of Leicas from 1975 to the present and one was usually in the cockpit with me.

I have been in the Philippines and New Zealand since 1 Nov 2023 and plan on traveling around the world next year.  Which Leica to take-a film body or a digital?  My heart says film but practicality says digital.  If I don't buy the M10R, I will purchase a MA or MP to go with my M4.  The handling is pretty much the same-rangefinder focusing, minimal controls, beautiful quality and engineering.  Of course the main difference is the recording medium.

I will let everyone know what I decide.  As I told the dealer, I won't make a decision until I can handle the cameras in question.

[Al Brown]

4 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

Which Leica to take-a film body or a digital?

Film bodies are only viable if you develop promptly due to aggressive film scanners at airports. They do offer that uniqe aesthetic though...

[ktmrider2]

Odd, since I have literally traveled the world with film cameras since 1975 when I became a pilot in the US Marines.  In the last year, I have spent a month in Vietnam, riding a motorcycle from Alaska to Missouri, scuba diving in the Philippines and a month touring in New Zealand.  Most recently I was surprised to come across 1 hour film development in New Zealand, and not in what passes for large cities in that country.  And I have a couple friends who shoot or did shoot for NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC and they still keep film cameras in their photo quivers.  

Maybe film is not as easy to travel with as digital but still a viable alternative.

Edited February 19 by ktmrider2

[dpitt]

@ktmrider2 You still leave the main question unanswered. Why did you switch for digital from the M240 to the X-T5. And why do you want to dive into the digital Ms apart from the economic and convenience aspect ? 

2 hours ago, Al Brown said:

There are at *least* ten factual reasons like better resolution, better buffer, new sensor design (not from 2013), better highlight recovery, slim body, better dynamic range, better UX/UI, no green shadows etc. etc. and that is for M240 ALONE, but let's leave it to the OP to list his reasons.

All these are true, but it is up to the OP to indicate how important each aspect is for him. He may or may not see other advantages or issues too. I am not sure each digital M generation/camera is by definition an improvement on every aspect for everybody.

[dugby]

KTMrider2, My photographic history and usage is similar to yours.

 

Occasionally I still access my old M240 which I gifted to my son, after I bought a silver M10-R.

The M10-R is outstanding in every way over the M240(which by itself, is still a brilliant camera). I think enough is written about it's features & benefits amongst the 240/10x/11x families.

 

I have de-badged both cameras in attempt to avoid questions about the red dot.  I actually prefer being stereotyped as  "the old guy with an odd looking $100 pawn shop vintage camera".

 

I thoroughly enjoy using the M10-R with 50APO for it's simplicity and quietness. I worked in high-technology for almost 40yrs, and in retirement have a great dislike for complications in my technology choices, and so the M10-R totally meets my expectations.

 

I and my family are always thrilled to see the M10-R/50APO images.

 

I hope you find similar enjoyment in your choice.

 

[Al Brown]

1 hour ago, dpitt said:

All these are true, but it is up to the OP to indicate how important each aspect is for him.

Exactly, as per my lastsentence in post #16.

[RexGig0]

15 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I have the opportunity to pick up a new M10R for US$6250 and am wondering if it is still worth it or should I look at the M11?  I have been using Leicas from as far back as 1975 with my purchase of a Leica CL.  I have owned all the Leica film cameras up to and including the M6TTL.  I have also owned the M9 and MP240 which I sold about three years ago.  My present Leica is a mint black M4.  My digital system is a Fuji X-T5 and a Ricoh GR3.

Now, I am also considering a Leica MP or MA as I prefer film but processing is turning in a PIA.  If I picked up a digital Leica (have five M mount lenses), I would sell the Fuji.  Have been looking at lots of You Tube videos and have not yet handled either M10R or M11.  I have to say I enjoy the whole process of using the M4 and film.  But I also appreciate technology and the Fuji has produced some amazing results.  I usually just set it to auto everything and just monitor exposure information in the viewfinder.  So I enjoy both old school (if I buy film body it will be MA) but don't mind the camera setting the exposure. 

I am a retired pilot who is 71 years old.  I do a lot of traveling and most of my photography is either travel or family related.  I can afford Leica but kind of turned off by the "jewelry" aspect.  I know the ultimate decision is mine but am looking for any and all input.  I can see advantages to traveling with digital but it is hard to beat the enjoyment of using a Leica.  Thanks!

The heart wants what the heart wants. 

The entire M10-series is slimmer than your previous digital M cameras. M10-series cameras have a body thickness comparable to your film Leica M cameras.

The M10-R is the last of the quieter-shutter Leica M cameras. I like peaceful shutters. The M11’s shutter makes noise even before one starts shooting.

The M10-R has a true ISO 100 setting, an advantage compared to your M Type 240, and also an advantage over the original M10 and the M10-P. (As an original-version M10 shooter, this is my major temptation, when considering adding an M10-R.)

I do not like jewelry. I do not even wear a wrist watch. I do like having a Leica M camera with me. My personal conclusion: A Leica M camera is not jewelry. 😉

Your last full sentence, above, was “I can see advantages to traveling with digital but it is hard to beat the enjoyment of using a Leica.” You also used the words “joy” and “enjoy,” in regard to Leica shooting. We should live joyful lives. I think you already answered your own question, and merely need affirmation. Consider yourself “affirmed.” 🙂

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[rpsawin]

Yes, they are still worth it.