leica m10-d Jono Slack: All about the Leica M10-D

[AlanJW]

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Thanks Jono.   Good review.  Such a camera is not fo rme.  I want a digital camera to be digital all around and give me all the benefits of digital, including image review.   You can always turn off the screen if you prefer.  As for the "winder," I think it a bit strange but will reserve judgment until I actually get to try it out.   It is not something I would order if it were an option.

[stefanusj]

Hi Jono, i think your son should be the head of R&D at Leica Wetzlar. He has such a wise view and maturity.

I think:

1) M10 is a HUGE improvement (making it thinner like Analogue M, more contrasty color like a CCD M9);

2) M10P is OK, although in my opinion it should release with black paint because it represents "High end M10" ;

3) M10D is only for a nerdy and old skool Leica users. BUT Leica wants to reach a broader marketing segment. And with a "mis-used lever" it makes a lot of nerd and old skool users go away.... an advance lever is meant to be higher purpose than just for a grip.... OMG!!!

Thanks

SJ

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[chris_tribble]

10 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Chris, it's an M10-P under the covers.  The M10 and the M10-P went to a simple on-off switch and put the drive options, of which there are many, including 2 and 12 second delay and several continuous shooting modes, down in a menu, arguing that you could put them on the favorites page if they were important.  I'll bet they are still down there inside the -D as well, and we have to wait to see if FOTOs will dig them out.  I could swear I saw a version of FOTOs for one of its cameras that had this option under settings.  But it's not present in what I currently am running.

Same thing is behind the question several people ask about why we can't have ISO settings with 1/3 stop steps, and put that back on the back of the camera.  All the M10 series change ISO in one stop steps, and that is probably wired into the hardware all the way down.  I don't think there is much new technology in the M10-D -- it's all about leaving stuff out.  (except for the lever, and the wireless, which seems to be newer than the M10's)

 

Scott - agreed that the D is a “less is less” model - but I was surprised to see that a simple, and existing, solution to the shutter release wasn’t deployed. Locking this sort of feature away in the phone app controller seems perverse. At the very least have it as a rear wheel option?

But hey, why should I worry? My M10s are doing the job I need impeccably 🧐

[evikne]

7 hours ago, AlanJW said:

You can always turn off the screen if you prefer.

Turning off the screen is not the same as having no screen. This is almost the same as when people say: You can shoot manually with any modern digital camera, just refrain from using all the automatic features the camera serves you.

But that will never be the same. That's why we choose Leica.

[LocalHero1953]

An excellent review by Jono, as always - explaining positively what this new camera does, without hiding its downsides.

It is of absolutely no interest (for personal ownership!) to me, because I find the LCD useful, and the lever/thumbgrip solves a problem I don't have. But then the M10 was not for me either, because of the absence of a truly silent shutter - not enough difference from my M240, and the CL & SL meet my other needs.

I have no objection to others wanting a M10-D because it meets their needs, and I hope its success adds to Leica's financial resources and helps them develop cameras and lenses I actually do want.

My only irritation is that I will face incredulous laughter from friends and acquaintances who know I own Leicas. At least a camera without colour generated respect; a camera without a LCD generated amusement; a camera with a faux wind on lever will generate ridicule - too close for comfort to Hasselblad's bizarre half-timbered offering. I have absolutely no doubt that Leica engineers tasked with making the M10 easier to grip, with a form-follows-function and a 'Das Wesentliche' brief, would design something more elegant than this.

BTW, I'm waiting for the first post on this forum praising the M10-D for including an add-on EVF and wireless app for accessing all the functions that have been removed, while still asserting that Leica was right to remove video from the M10 from a Das Wesentliche standpoint 😁.

Edited October 25, 2018 by LocalHero1953

[Ouroboros]

I think anyone who is getting hot under the collar about this camera should step back and accept it for what it is.  No one in their right mind would routinely use it for critical or paid work. 

It’s a toy intended for those who can afford the luxury of owning it and the limited sense of individualism it represents. 

It’s a mildly anarchic photographic upright middle finger and I love that!

 

[farnz]

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I'm wondering whether anyone knows what the small button on the top deck beside the faux wind-on lever is?  I recall that in my M240 it was to start video capture but the M10-D doesn't have video so the button must have another function. 

Pete.

[NigelG]

According to the QuickStart guide posted elsewhere on the forum it works exactly the same as the button on the M-D ie to set the date/time via the thumb wheel after being held for >12seconds.

This makes absolutely no sense to me if the camera can connect to a smartphone where lots of other optional settings can be made!

[AlbertTRAL]

Well the reviews I have read posted that it tells you how many images you have left on the card, but only up to 999, and the battery life.

Edited October 25, 2018 by AlbertTRAL

[magixaxeman]

Well great review but how much does the damn thing weigh?

[NigelG]

11 minutes ago, AlbertTRAL said:

Well the reviews I have read posted that it tells you how many images you have left on the card, but only up to 999, and the battery life.

Yes - that's also how it functions with a brief press on the M-D. The frames left is often irrelevant due to card sizes and on the M-D the battery seems endless. I guess with Wi-Fi and LV and the visoflex and jpeg processing and the smaller M10 battery it's going to be more critical here......

Edited October 25, 2018 by NigelG

[jonoslack]

14 hours ago, Frase said:

Well done for going to the effort of writing the review, but maybe (and I'm not trying to be cruel) if the camera did have a rear screen would you have not fired a couple more frames after checking the third picture in the review?

HI There Frase

Yes indeed I would, and you may have noticed me saying that at the christening I started shooting with the M10-D and quickly went back to the M10 -

Mind you, whether I would have had time for another shot is a moot point (everyone milling about) and possibly it was better to get the mother of the baby in focus rather than the god-mother! Both would have meant shoving someone out of the way to get a different angle!

all the best

[NigelG]

5 minutes ago, magixaxeman said:

Well great review but how much does the damn thing weigh?

660g inc battery

[jonoslack]

11 hours ago, Linford said:

On point, poignant and objective as alway, Jono. Thank you for the glimpse and your insight. Cheers--lt

 

Thank you Linford - that's very much appreciated - I had fun writing it and it's great if people had fun reading it!

[jonoslack]

6 hours ago, stefanusj said:

Hi Jono, i think your son should be the head of R&D at Leica Wetzlar. He has such a wise view and maturity.

I think:

1) M10 is a HUGE improvement (making it thinner like Analogue M, more contrasty color like a CCD M9);

2) M10P is OK, although in my opinion it should release with black paint because it represents "High end M10" ;

3) M10D is only for a nerdy and old skool Leica users. BUT Leica wants to reach a broader marketing segment. And with a "mis-used lever" it makes a lot of nerd and old skool users go away.... an advance lever is meant to be higher purpose than just for a grip.... OMG!!!

Thanks

SJ

Hi There Stefan

I'll show Silas your remarks, he'll be very pleased!

To be honest I'm completely with you . . . well mostly with you!

1) M10 is great - in every respect

2) M10-P is OK, but I don't need the touchscreen, and I prefer the noisier shutter of the M10 (because I use the shutter noise when I'm taking pictures of people) - a silent (electronic) option would be nice though

3) Well, if you read my stuff you'll have realised that's what I thought. But actually I've loved using the M10-D, it's a different experience (for those times when it doesn't really matter what you shoot) and the 'thumb grip'  turns out to be so much better than either a thumbs up or a grip.

I'd certainly use it on occasions if somebody was kind enough to give me one . . . but I wouldn't dream of buying one instead of an M10.

Best

Jono

[scott kirkpatrick]

1 hour ago, farnz said:

I'm wondering whether anyone knows what the small button on the top deck beside the faux wind-on lever is?  I recall that in my M240 it was to start video capture but the M10-D doesn't have video so the button must have another function. 

Pete.

The video button on the top of an M240 and the live view button on the front were removed when video was left off of the M262, but returned in the M-D because the designers had taken away all the other buttons and realized that even though everything else in the camera could pretend that it was just an M7, to output digital files you have to add a timestamp, so they added a few lines of firmware to respond to this button.  They also discovered that there were just enough bits in the LED that is visible through the optical viewfinder to write in the date, using the thumbwheel to cycle through the digits that you might want to use for this.

When it was time to repeat the ensleekening process to produce an M10-D from the M10-P,  live view had come back, smaller and less power-hungry wifi chips were available, and the Auto-ISO function was also exposed.  All the firmware from the M10-P is undoubtedly still inside the camera (taking things out in software has its risks; it's safer to just leave it), and now there are two buttons available.  Live view uses the front button to trigger focus magnification.  So I am sure that one group of engineers is saying to management that they can access all the menus that are needed with two buttons and scroll through them with the thumbwheel (true in principle).  And management is saying that the FOTOS team can do it all, and then the new camera can ship sooner.  The engineers working on the M10-D, in my imaginary but plausible scenario,  reply that the FOTOS team has many requirements on their plate.  The M10-D's are only a small part of them, critical stuff will never get done!!  And we are seeing this all working out.

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by scott kirkpatrick

[jonoslack]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

An excellent review by Jono, as always - explaining positively what this new camera does, without hiding its downsides.

It is of absolutely no interest (for personal ownership!) to me, because I find the LCD useful, and the lever/thumbgrip solves a problem I don't have. But then the M10 was not for me either, because of the absence of a truly silent shutter - not enough difference from my M240, and the CL & SL meet my other needs.

I have no objection to others wanting a M10-D because it meets their needs, and I hope its success adds to Leica's financial resources and helps them develop cameras and lenses I actually do want.

My only irritation is that I will face incredulous laughter from friends and acquaintances who know I own Leicas. At least a camera without colour generated respect; a camera without a LCD generated amusement; a camera with a faux wind on lever will generate ridicule - too close for comfort to Hasselblad's bizarre half-timbered offering. I have absolutely no doubt that Leica engineers tasked with making the M10 easier to grip, with a form-follows-function and a 'Das Wesentliche' brief, would design something more elegant than this.

BTW, I'm waiting for the first post on this forum praising the M10-D for including an add-on EVF and wireless app for accessing all the functions that have been removed, while still asserting that Leica was right to remove video from the M10 from a Das Wesentliche standpoint 😁.

Hi there Paul

Thanks for the kind words - it was rather good fun to write this one, so I'm especially glad you enjoyed it.

I actually think (at least I was told) that the Leica engineers WERE tasked with making a better grip solution - and that this is what they came up with (take it or leave it). 

The shutter noise is interesting - it's actually the biggest reason for me NOT to want an M10-P (and I'm not alone). I absolutely want my subjects to hear when I take a picture - it's an important way of controlling a shooting situation. I have talked to a fashion photographer, and a different glamour photographer and they both feel the same way. . . . and quite frankly the shutter on the M10 isn't loud enough for anyone to hear if they aren't aware of you anyway. What I WOULD like is a shutter like the M10 . . with an option for a silent electronic shutter for those moments when you want to be silent. That would give you the best of both worlds

And I'm pleased to be the first to praise the M10-D for giving you an EVF and the options via a wifi app . . . and also for removing the Video from the M10 - both good decisions to my mind

 

[jonoslack]

2 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

I think anyone who is getting hot under the collar about this camera should step back and accept it for what it is.  No one in their right mind would routinely use it for critical or paid work. 

It’s a toy intended for those who can afford the luxury of owning it and the limited sense of individualism it represents. 

It’s a mildly anarchic photographic upright middle finger and I love that!

 

Exactly - you've put it perfectly and that's something to love it, and Leica for (even if you wouldn't dream of having one). It's brilliant that it exists (even if it's a bit silly)

[farnz]

38 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

... The shutter noise is interesting - it's actually the biggest reason for me NOT to want an M10-P (and I'm not alone). I absolutely want my subjects to hear when I take a picture - it's an important way of controlling a shooting situation. ...

Couldn't you just say "Click!" or "Whirr-click" or "Berdoi-oi-oi-oing!" when you release the shutter so that the crowd knows that the picture's been taken and thereby also have access to a pseudo-silent shutter for when you might need it, Jono?😅

Pete.

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[Dr No]

59 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Exactly - you've put it perfectly and that's something to love it, and Leica for (even if you wouldn't dream of having one). It's brilliant that it exists (even if it's a bit silly)

Wouldn't it be wonderful if it did exist and wasn't silly though?