New Leica M in September 2016? The speculations.

[Guest roey]

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There may always be a place for video-less M but I am confident the base model will continue to support video. Video is here to stay.

 

I am afraid you are right.

[John Ricard]

However the video components do take up considerable precious space in the camera body. That space can be used for other helpful features such as WiFi, etc.... The M goes on the principle of less is better in terms of simplicity of its software functionality. Why not apply the same principle to its physical design? Everyone has the latest iPhone or Android nowadays which can take some pretty decent video. So having video taking option in an M does not make sense.

 

The M240 definitely showed the Leica philosophy of "less is better".  They removed the frame preview lever and they added one small button (smaller than the preview button!) for video.  The camera ended up with the same about of buttons that the M9 had -and that camera did not have video.  

 

For those of you who don't like video on the M, I truly don't understand how you are using the cameras publicly.  It's common for me to be standing next to another shooter who has the ability to shoot video instantly, and that ability benefits him in some way. It's common for me to get ready to shoot something in a non professional setting and that person to ask me to shoot a video clip rather than a still photo.  It's common for me to be in situations where I want to capture a video clip in addition to a still photograph.  Why would I not want the M to be able to shoot video?

 

Not to mention, the M takes better video than reviewers would have you believe: 

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[John Ricard]

I have never shot video on my M240's and never will.  In fact the first, last and only time I shot video was with a Panasonic camcorder that used a full-sized VHS tape.  I'm just not into videography...

Why adopt such a rigid stance?  You see great video content being created and consumed daily.  Today, when I am looking for a product review, the first place I go is to You Tube.  When I visit the NY Times website, I see marvelous documentary content being done on video.  How do you benefit from a "I never will" shoot video stance?  

[flyalf]

 

 

....

Why would I not want the M to be able to shoot video?

 

...

Hi,

 

I and presumably others have no problem with you wanting to shoot video. The problem arises when you want us that prioritizes still photo to pay for the video "feature". Believe it, there is no free lunch, only a question of whom pays for the lunch .

 

To add to the discussion, IMO anyone who doesn't print the videos are no real videographer .

[Exodies]

Video is a much more cooperative activity than single frame shooting. For one person to make a film they would have to be superhumanly dedicated to the project. I guess some folk are attracted to the idea that "I couldn't even make a movie if I wanted to".

And oh, I've run out of ideas.

[jaapv]

 Well, if it comes to that, we had to pay for the disabling feature of the video button...  Firmware updates are calculated in the general cost as well. And I had to pay for the 75 mm framelines - I don't even have a 75 mm lens and they clutter up my viewfinder.

[fabior]

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My opinion ! .... A new M should only have an immagine stabilizer on the sensor and eventually a gps to be able to know where you have taken a picture and an integrated magnifier/diopter correction .

 

It's enough to take very very good picture !! 

[Rick]

Hi,

 

I and presumably others have no problem with you wanting to shoot video. The problem arises when you want us that prioritizes still photo to pay for the video "feature". Believe it, there is no free lunch, only a question of whom pays for the lunch .

 

To add to the discussion, IMO anyone who doesn't print the videos are no real videographer .

 

How do know that video is not helping pay for further R&D of the still-photo "feature?"

 

Leica no doubt sold a lot more M cameras due to customers that need/want to be able to shoot video.  These sales I'm certain help increase the overall R&D of the M line.  It is silly to think that the inclusion of the "feature" to store the live feed off the sensor to the card makes the camera more expensive.  I would think that the opposite is true.

 

And, another poster mentioned that the space could be better utilized for other features.  Then, comments that we have smart phones for video.  Huh?  The electronic board in a smart phone is so tiny that I bet you could squeeze the whole board into the M and not notice it.  It is silly to think the inclusion of the video "feature" takes up substantial space that could be used for other things

 

I'm good with video myself and hope it is expanded in capability and quality on the new M... as I am certain it will be.

 

Rick

[adoorn001]

my wishes are

As I change lenses frequently dust om my sensor is a problem: sensor cleaning

I have too many pictures with movement unsharpness: In camera image stabilization and higher ISO

Focussing with lenses wide open is stil difficult: improvement of EVF resolution

Using 28 mm lenses with glasses is difficult with the rangefinder: improvement of EVF resolution

 

This way the versatlity of the M would  improve a lot without losing its character as a high quality camera with excellent lenses.

[pgk]

Because it is very practical - a short clip during travel with a long lens to augment the video taken with a "real" video camera, for PJs to insert a talking head in a corporate photoshoot, seeing the unexpected which screams for video when on a camera walkabout - etc. I would not be without it, even if I never considered it a need when it was not there.

I started photographic life with a Zenith B. Of course its missing feature, and one which was never added, was a claw to compliment its ability to hammer nails in..... problem with it was the ergonomics, whilst it could be used as a hammer it was awkward to do so. There were better hammers available which were cheaper and more effective. Since there are FAR better tools to shoot video with, why clutter up a simple RFcamera with it. OK if its there some will use it but I'd prefer it not to be there at all. You don't need to agree but that's my opinion .

[Mornnb]

Mornnb,

 

I get your points. I have a Compaq with a 486DX running FreeBSD-4.5 that can still ppp to a US Robotics modem. It runs great whenever I bother to plug it in (xeyes!) but I don't use it anymore and no company in their right mind would try to sell them. Computers have accumulated a lot more features but remain little more than what their software tells them they are. Calculator, phone, TV, stereo, ham radio, camera, checkbook, diary, keyboard, thermometer; they are almost nothing, and almost anything. In that regard I don't entirely agree with your analogy.

 

 

 

High end digital cameras do have a longevity, they do not suddenly lose their ability to take photos.

The Canon 5D is the camera that really popularised digital with professional photography. This year it is 10 years old. However, the photos it produces are still excellent even by modern standards. Given how it performs, one could seriously ask why does anyone need a newer camera? Here is a thread with users of the cameras, still shooting and posting photos from it:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1159990&page=602

 

The success of the 5D 10 years after it's introduction, gives me no doubt of the longevity of digital Leicas.

 

 

(Non-phone) cameras are not almost anything. They're cameras. There's a closer limit to how much stuff you can add to drive sales. Perhaps that's why this movie button is the issue it is for many. I'm not speaking to the longevity of the M; I think it's a great camera and wouldn't be afraid to buy one if I was in the market for a digital Leica. My post was addressing the 'what is going to be added to the next M?' question. The Leica was born almost fully realized as its future self. What is there to add to an M7? Or an M-A? The digital Leica?

Thanks,

s-a

 

 

 

There are of course several things that could be added to the M. A better sensor, better EVF. There is a strong possibility they will introduce a digital rangefinder with an EVF focus patch.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Mornnb

[Rick]

High end digital cameras do have a longevity, they do not suddenly lose their ability to take photos.

The Canon 5D is the camera that really popularised digital with professional photography. This year it is 10 years old. However, the photos it produces are still excellent even by modern standards. Given how it performs, one could seriously ask why does anyone need a newer camera? Here is a thread with users of the cameras, still shooting and posting photos from it:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1159990&page=602

 

The success of the 5D 10 years after it's introduction, gives me no doubt of the longevity of digital Leicas.

 

Yes.  Exactly.  Here is a shot taken 3 years ago with my (still own it) Canon 5D + Leica 280/2.8 APO Telyt R:    

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/187025-mountain-goat/?p=2112222

 

Rick

[Jeffry Abt]

I would not miss video if it was gone from the M. But video on my M has never truly "bothered me" with it's presence.

[Jennifer]

Why adopt such a rigid stance?  You see great video content being created and consumed daily.  Today, when I am looking for a product review, the first place I go is to You Tube.  When I visit the NY Times website, I see marvelous documentary content being done on video.  How do you benefit from a "I never will" shoot video stance?  

 

Personally, I find producing still photographs of any merit stretches my limited ability to breaking point. Venturing into the field of video, I fear, would just increase the number of times I find it necessary to press the delete key.

[Peter Kilmister]

Jennifer, You might surprise yourself, as might many others, by how easy it is to create film sequences. Make sure speed is set to A. Focus and hit the video button. Keep what you want in focus and Bob's your father's brother.

The fear of trying and failing is nothing compared to the joy of actually trying it and failing ... or realising it was a doddle. 2 minutes of your life to become David Lean for 90 seconds. One press of the delete button is worth a try.

[Monochrome]

I still don't get why people want to spend so much money on a rangefinder camera and then use it with an EVF. I mean, what's the point? Buy a T model and save the money for some lenses.

The M model is a unique type of camera, the only true rangefinder in the digital camera world. If Leica wants it to survive, they have to keep the M model pure and simple. Otherwise it will just be a variation of the  mirrorless cameramodels from Sony, Fuji and Panasonic. Just more expensive.

 

In my mind, Leica should go back to simplicity in the M line, with only an optical rangefinder, no Liveview and EVF, no video, no microphone holes and audioconnector.

Bring back the optical framelines and mechanical framelineselector. Make it weathersealed, rugged and reliable, so that professionals will consider it again as a serious option. Look into your quality control and make sure no camera leaves the factory with any defects. Keeping the camera simple will help with that.

 

And yes, a M camera like that will be a niche market product. But i think that is far better than a M camera trying to be a "do-it-all" boutique model.

[lct]

How many "professionals" would prefer a Visoflex to an EVF? Those are antiques now. I would let them to historians and collectors.

[Rick]

Jennifer, You might surprise yourself, as might many others, by how easy it is to create film sequences. Make sure speed is set to A. 

 

Jennifer,

 

Don't do it this way.  First google around and find out the strength of the M video is in its ability to shoot 24fps like film which requires a 180 degree shutter angle for best video (in most instances) and means that you set the shutter dial to 1/45 of a second which Leica has set as 1/50 of a second when in video. Don't use A.  This is a simple "how to" but it will give a very film-like output.

 

The next part with video is like still photography.  Post processing.  That is probably more complicated than with still photography.  It also encompasses audio.  But, just keep moving forward and, for me, it is an entirely different set of skills to be mastered.  But, just like stills, you get to keep learning.

 

I never realized how difficult it is to produce good video and audio.

 

Rick

Edited November 12, 2015 by Rick

[Soden]

With the advent of the SL the M does not need to be the universal tool in Leica's stable. Leica can now work on the core elements of what is the M. Without the need for compatibility, video, LV etc. If you need any of these features just buy a SL. What direction Leica will take the M has been hinted at by certain new patents, and hints at improvements in the range finder. Whether or not a specific feature is added or removed, is really unimportant if the M is going to evolve.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

Not everybody can afford both M and SL bodies. Visoflex devices made part of the M system since the fifties. Today Visoflex is electronic and needs LV to work. 

Edited November 12, 2015 by lct