M8 Firmware 2.004

[jaapv]

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Sean, now that this request is granted, how about another campaign? I vote for an adjustable diopter upgrade, retrofittable to all M cameras. I know it may not be as simple as I think, but on the other hand, it should be doable. And it would save quite some bandwidth on this forum

[brill64]

"A few people have reported the motor trying to cock the shutter repeatedly and I believe that is down to debris on the electromagnet armature which is magnetic."

 

just wish to comment...mine did this within 2hrs of shooting outside the box but the camera was in continuous mode with discrete mode on. in single mode it's fine

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[spylaw4]

Yes, of course it does IMHO. In fact, that's an important distinction and one that I hope lots of people keep in mind.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Quite!

[bill]

Does it not depend upon how the whining is done?

 

"I want, I want!" or "Leica OWE it to me!" don't seem to be as constructive, to my mind, as some of the more considered approaches, that are likely to have a more positive response.

 

Quite.

 

If one of my customers came to me and accused me of, say, just as an example, "hot air" or maybe "broken promises" and demanded I make changes in the future I would be less well disposed to listen to and act promptly upon the gist of his demands than if he had presented me with a reasoned requirement in a courteous manner. This is one of the primary functions of User Groups in the software market - forming together to speak with one voice and present fully thought through, structured, reasoned and reasonable requests for future changes based on the needs of the majority, not the whim of whoever shouts loudest.

 

Well done Leica - nice to see the application of a sensible upgrade roadmap.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[t024484]

First of all let us get the confirmation, when 004 is out, that the discreet mode is indeed part of this update.

I do not believe at all that if discreet happens to be part of this update, that it is because Leica responded to "whining". If so, I do not see why it took them so long.

My feeling is that the M8 Classic is simply sold out, and preventing discreet is no longer an issue to Leica.

Now they can say, look we kept our promise for updates, but first of all we had to flush our old stock.

 

Hans

[marknorton]

"A few people have reported the motor trying to cock the shutter repeatedly and I believe that is down to debris on the electromagnet armature which is magnetic."

 

just wish to comment...mine did this within 2hrs of shooting outside the box but the camera was in continuous mode with discrete mode on. in single mode it's fine

 

Yes, I understand from Scott that this was a firmware bug specifically related to the combination of continuous and discreet modes.

[ccc yyy]

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My working assumption is that the delayed recock was a feature that was developed for the M8.2 hardware . I assume that Leica has finite resources for testing, and so most likely deferred testing the delayed recock against the original M8 hardware until after releasing the M8.2 to market. It would have been a poor decision imho to delay launching the M8.2 to allow testing of the delayed recock feature on the M8 hardware.

 

Coming from the world of software development, where 'everything' is possible - there is not a zero cost to rolling out a feature to multiple platforms. Often, this means that that rollout is staged. So just because it is technically possible, doesn't mean it's practically possible in a given time period. Leica must be careful to consider the possible impact of any firmware change on the camera, I for one would not relish having to send my camera back for a jammed shutter just because someone 'knew' that there would be no impact of releasing delayed recocking to the M8.

 

So, I'm glad they released it with the new firmware. I very much doubt if it was a calculated marketing ploy.

 

right on ...

[marknorton]

Sean, now that this request is granted, how about another campaign? I vote for an adjustable diopter upgrade, retrofittable to all M cameras. I know it may not be as simple as I think, but on the other hand, it should be doable. And it would save quite some bandwidth on this forum

 

I think that would be an excellent idea. I hhaven't used one up to now and there's always the question which power works best for you. I think it would be better to replace the existing finder lens with the new variable one; if it could be made variable magnification as well, say, 0.75 - 1.5, that would be even better.

 

The somewhat maligned Panasonic G1 has and adjustable finder at 1/10 of the price...

[steich]

(How do you say "hint, hint" in German?)

 

There's no 100% translation- maybe we would say "Kleiner Wink mit dem Zaunpfahl".

Literally translated "A little bit of waving a fence post".

 

Regards

Stefan

[jaapv]

I think that would be an excellent idea. I hhaven't used one up to now and there's always the question which power works best for you. I think it would be better to replace the existing finder lens with the new variable one; if it could be made variable magnification as well, say, 0.75 - 1.5, that would be even better.

 

The somewhat maligned Panasonic G1 has and adjustable finder at 1/10 of the price...

 

Yes-Mark, that is exactly what I mean. It is a bit silly that the R8 and R9 have this as a matter of course, and the M series not. It is btw, an excellent way of determining one's dioptre requirement, as the R9 is adjusting wheel is calibrated in dioptres.

[blakley]

My working assumption is that the delayed recock was a feature that was developed for the M8.2 hardware . I assume that Leica has finite resources for testing, and so most likely deferred testing the delayed recock against the original M8 hardware until after releasing the M8.2 to market. It would have been a poor decision imho to delay launching the M8.2 to allow testing of the delayed recock feature on the M8 hardware.

 

Coming from the world of software development, where 'everything' is possible - there is not a zero cost to rolling out a feature to multiple platforms. Often, this means that that rollout is staged. So just because it is technically possible, doesn't mean it's practically possible in a given time period. Leica must be careful to consider the possible impact of any firmware change on the camera, I for one would not relish having to send my camera back for a jammed shutter just because someone 'knew' that there would be no impact of releasing delayed recocking to the M8.

 

So, I'm glad they released it with the new firmware. I very much doubt if it was a calculated marketing ploy.

 

Though it's certainly possible that Leica withheld M8 discreet mode for commercial reasons, David's explanation was very much my mental model of what happened. I've been in software for about 25 years now, and experienced all the joys of regression testing a piece of working software or firmware with new hardware. Even if the hardware's interface is identical to the old rig, its behavior is never identical, and a lot of testing goes into making sure that everything works OK with the new gear.

 

To Mark's point, just because the firmware is the same for the M8 and the M8.2 doesn't mean that the shutter recock logic goes down the same codepath for M8 discreet mode and M8.2 discreet mode; the firmware knows which hardware it's controlling, and it could branch based on the hardware type and implement different logic for the two cameras. I've not looked at the firmware (and don't plan to) but I don't think we have enough information to reach a solid conclusion about how this is being done.

 

There are many possible cases here:

 

• 2.002 has a complete codepath for M8.2 discreet mode and no code (a "stub") for M8 discreet mode; traverses M8.2 codepath only if M8.2 hardware is recognized and otherwise completes pre-discreet mode shutter fire logic.
   
  
• 2.002 has identical codepaths for M8 and M8.2 discreet mode but testing of M8 codepath not complete so won't allow selection of discreet mode via menu if M8 hardware recognized.
   
  
• 2.002 has different codepaths for M8 and M8.2 discreet modes but testing of M8 codepath not complete so won't allow selection of discreet mode via menu if M8 hardware recognized, and won't go down M8 code branch under any circumstances.
  

 

... and so on.

[blakley]

I think that would be an excellent idea. I hhaven't used one up to now and there's always the question which power works best for you. I think it would be better to replace the existing finder lens with the new variable one; if it could be made variable magnification as well, say, 0.75 - 1.5, that would be even better.

 

The somewhat maligned Panasonic G1 has and adjustable finder at 1/10 of the price...

 

I'd put lens selection via menu above this one on the list; I'd also love a bit of firmware noise suppression for ISO 1250 and above if there's room in the code segment.

[Guest Luis D]

I do not believe at all that if discreet happens to be part of this update, that it is because Leica responded to "whining". If so, I do not see why it took them so long.

My feeling is that the M8 Classic is simply sold out, and preventing discreet is no longer an issue to Leica.

Now they can say, look we kept our promise for updates, but first of all we had to flush our old stock.

 

Hans

 

Except that offering the delay as a firmware update will a)make current owners of an M8 re-think spending the money to trading up to an M8.2, and make some people now consider a secondhand M8 + upgrade versus a new M8.2. Furthermore, if their goal had been to clear stocks of the M8, allowing the delay via firmware earlier would have quickened the selling of them. So what you suggest makes absolutely no business sense for Leica to have done. Hmm, well, on second thought maybe you could be right, given some of Leica's past

[stunsworth]

Except that offering the delay as a firmware update will a)make current owners of an M8 re-think spending the money to trading up to an M8.2...

 

But will it? There are more differences between the two cameras that the shutter re-cocking, the M8.2 shutter is still quieter than the M8 for example.

[luigi bertolotti]

Yes-Mark, that is exactly what I mean. It is a bit silly that the R8 and R9 have this as a matter of course, and the M series not. It is btw, an excellent way of determining one's dioptre requirement, as the R9 is adjusting wheel is calibrated in dioptres.

 

Agree, it could be really a welcome update...much more useful than software whistles... and after all, some dioptre adjustment was available even in the Leica Screw Mount...

[charlesphoto99]

But will it? There are more differences between the two cameras that the shutter re-cocking, the M8.2 shutter is still quieter than the M8 for example.

 

Yeah, I think too much emphasis is being placed on this discreet mode setting as solving the noise issue of the original M8. It doesn't as the upgraded shutter is much quieter as well as more vibration free. And not all of us want to have to shove our camera in our coat after every frame. If truly quiet is what you need then the upgrade or the M8.2 is what one must get - the discreet mode will only get you so far.

[JGW]

Sometimes what certain people describe as "whining" pays off. Leica does indeed listen and at least consider customer requests and concerns. Fortunately, some here are not afraid to advocate for changes they think are reasonable and constructive. Some of us "whine" in public to Leica and some in private.

 

I imagine that people who decry "whining" have gained nothing from the revised frame lines or, now, the availability of the "discreet advance" on the M8. But if they have benefited (or will benefit) from these features, perhaps they'll rethink the difference between "whining" and advocating for changes that benefit M8 photographers.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean (A proud selective "whiner" to Leica since 2004)

 

Well said Sean. I'm glad that I whined about these very two issues some time ago as well. I'm so pleased that Leica have not disregarded their firstborn digital M. It too needs to be regarded as a good camera, having had almost all of its teething troubles corrected, or at least improved upon.

 

The other night when I first read this good news, I was so pleased that I poured myself a whiskey to celebrate!

 

Thank you Leica for continuing to make the original M8 an even better camera. This discreet mode will be so useful to me.

 

Does it not depend upon how the whining is done?

 

"I want, I want!" or "Leica OWE it to me!" don't seem to be as constructive, to my mind, as some of the more considered approaches, that are likely to have a more positive response.

 

Yes, of course it does.

 

It's not so much, I want, I want!" or "Leica OWE it to me!". It's mainly that the many who came to the M8 via past M camera ownership with the expected M characteristics were surprised by such 'foreign' design aspects as noisy shutters and awfully inaccurate framelines

 

Jeffrey.

Edited March 2, 2009 by JGW

[Guest Luis D]

But will it? There are more differences between the two cameras that the shutter re-cocking, the M8.2 shutter is still quieter than the M8 for example.

 

But the shutter/glass/frames upgrade places the M8.2 shutter into the M8, and costs less to a current M8 owner than to sell it and buy a new M8.2 (I researched this before making my decision). The firmware delay brings shutter function to equality with the M8.2. Yes there are still some features not gainable on an M8, and I did not mean that nobody will choose to buy an M8.2. However I think is naiive to believe the addition of the delay will not influence some people away from the M8.2 instead to keep or buy+upgrade an M8.

[russell c. greenberg]

what ArtZ said.

 

PS: I love this image of the technicians at Solms nervously testing the M8 shutter right up to the last minute release of the firmware - I see a sort of Das Boot extreme close-up of a sweating brow, and a shaky hand reaching out to apprehensively press the shutter...

Ah, all good stuff!

 

Morgen, TORPEDO LOS! Good luck to all with the upgrade, can't wait. Guess we all will be "running silent" afterwards . Russell

Edited March 2, 2009 by russell c. greenberg
If not running silent, at least discreet.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[nagui]

Morgen, TORPEDO LOS! Good luck to all with the upgrade, can't wait. Guess we all will be "running silent" afterwards . Russell

 

And at what time this famous update will be deliver ?

 

Nag,